1 00:00:15,307 --> 00:00:17,726 [Engine Rewing] 2 00:01:03,814 --> 00:01:06,859 ##[Woman Vocalizing] 3 00:01:51,904 --> 00:01:55,282 [ Men Shouting ] 4 00:01:55,365 --> 00:01:58,118 [ Horn Honking ] 5 00:02:03,624 --> 00:02:06,210 [ Honking Continues ] 6 00:02:08,629 --> 00:02:12,758 - [Horns Honking] - [People Clamoring] 7 00:02:12,841 --> 00:02:16,136 - [Horn Honking] - [Woman Shouting] 8 00:02:20,182 --> 00:02:24,937 ##[Vocalizing Continues] 9 00:02:31,276 --> 00:02:32,986 [Men Chattering] 10 00:02:34,154 --> 00:02:36,490 [Men Shouting] 11 00:03:10,399 --> 00:03:13,652 [Man Speaking ln Arabic] 12 00:03:17,114 --> 00:03:20,492 [ Men Conversing ln Arabic ] 13 00:03:39,094 --> 00:03:41,221 - Coffee? - Yeah, thank you. 14 00:03:43,432 --> 00:03:46,393 How have you liked your stay? 15 00:03:46,476 --> 00:03:49,104 - What I've seen, I've liked. - [ Speaks ln Arabic ] 16 00:03:53,692 --> 00:03:56,820 Please to explain why l should agree to interview... 17 00:03:56,904 --> 00:03:59,448 with pro-Zionist American media? 18 00:04:01,116 --> 00:04:03,118 Because I think Hezbollah... 19 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,789 is trying to broaden into a political party right now, 20 00:04:07,831 --> 00:04:10,501 so you care about what you're thought of in America, 21 00:04:10,584 --> 00:04:13,462 and in America at this moment in time, 22 00:04:13,504 --> 00:04:16,507 Hezbollah does not have a face. 23 00:04:16,590 --> 00:04:20,719 - That's why. - Perhaps you approve journalism objectivity, 24 00:04:20,802 --> 00:04:22,721 and I see the questions first. 25 00:04:22,804 --> 00:04:25,557 Then I decide if l grant the interview. 26 00:04:25,641 --> 00:04:28,101 No. We don't do that. 27 00:04:28,185 --> 00:04:31,480 You've seen 60 Minutes and Mike Wallace, 28 00:04:31,563 --> 00:04:34,816 so you know our reputation for integrity and objectivity. 29 00:04:34,858 --> 00:04:39,279 You also know we are the highest-rated, most-respected... 30 00:04:39,363 --> 00:04:42,783 TV magazine news show in America. 31 00:04:44,868 --> 00:04:47,412 ##[Man Singing ln Arabic On Radio] 32 00:04:50,624 --> 00:04:53,961 So, Mr. Wallace-- should he get on a plane or not? 33 00:04:55,796 --> 00:04:58,966 Tell him I'll see him day after tomorrow. 34 00:04:59,049 --> 00:05:01,301 That's good. That works. 35 00:05:04,054 --> 00:05:08,851 You know, I want to ask you something. I know it sounds odd, but-- 36 00:05:13,522 --> 00:05:15,440 Hello? Sheikh? 37 00:05:19,069 --> 00:05:21,655 Hello? Sheikh? 38 00:05:28,453 --> 00:05:30,873 - Norman? - What? What? 39 00:05:30,914 --> 00:05:33,292 Take your blindfold off. 40 00:05:38,672 --> 00:05:41,800 Welcome to the world. 41 00:05:44,428 --> 00:05:47,222 [Phone Beeping] 42 00:05:47,264 --> 00:05:49,892 Fluctuating all over the place. 43 00:05:49,933 --> 00:05:54,354 Anywhere we shoot here, it's gonna be portable gennies and we'll run cable. 44 00:05:58,317 --> 00:06:01,528 [ Line Ringing ] 45 00:06:04,281 --> 00:06:06,533 - Hello? - Mike, it's me. 46 00:06:06,617 --> 00:06:09,411 We're on. 47 00:06:09,494 --> 00:06:11,455 [Phone Beeps] 48 00:06:25,385 --> 00:06:27,679 [ Chattering ] 49 00:06:46,949 --> 00:06:49,243 [ Elevator Bell Dings ] 50 00:07:58,187 --> 00:08:01,481 - [TV Playing Cartoons] - Hi, honey. 51 00:08:01,565 --> 00:08:03,901 - Hi, Daddy. - What's new? 52 00:08:03,984 --> 00:08:07,988 - Miss Loughrey gave me a star today. - Yeah? What for? 53 00:08:08,071 --> 00:08:11,116 - For reading. - That's great. 54 00:08:18,665 --> 00:08:21,627 A little early for cartoons, isn't it? 55 00:08:22,794 --> 00:08:25,464 Okay. 56 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,009 [TV Turns Off] 57 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,805 Deborah? Debbie? 58 00:08:43,065 --> 00:08:45,567 Oh, I didn't know you were home. 59 00:08:45,651 --> 00:08:48,987 It's early, isn't it? 60 00:08:49,029 --> 00:08:52,157 [ Sighs ] Gotta take Debbie to ballet. 61 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,328 [Girl] Mommy! 62 00:08:58,872 --> 00:09:02,251 [ Hyper ventilating ] 63 00:09:03,669 --> 00:09:05,587 Sweetheart, come on. Come on. 64 00:09:05,671 --> 00:09:08,507 -She was playing with my Pooh doll again. - [ Hyper ventilating ] 65 00:09:08,549 --> 00:09:12,344 Slow down. Slow down. Slow down. Breathe deep. Breathe deep. 66 00:09:14,555 --> 00:09:16,390 - [ Hyper ventilating ] - Slow down, honey. Slow down. 67 00:09:16,431 --> 00:09:19,309 Slow down. 68 00:09:19,393 --> 00:09:22,521 Here we go. Deep breaths. 69 00:09:22,604 --> 00:09:25,065 - Deep breaths. -She was playing with the Pooh doll. 70 00:09:25,148 --> 00:09:29,403 Pooh's dusty, sweetheart. He's dusty, and you breathed him in. 71 00:09:29,444 --> 00:09:31,530 Okay? So, what's happening to you-- Look at me. 72 00:09:31,613 --> 00:09:34,324 What's happening to you now is cells called mass cells... 73 00:09:34,408 --> 00:09:38,495 told your lungs, " Don't breathe any more of that dust in." 74 00:09:38,579 --> 00:09:41,039 And the airways in your lungs are like branches, 75 00:09:41,123 --> 00:09:45,043 and when the branches close up, you get an asthmatic attack, 76 00:09:45,085 --> 00:09:47,921 and we give you medicine, and you get better. 77 00:09:47,963 --> 00:09:50,424 Uh-huh? Okay? 78 00:09:50,507 --> 00:09:52,426 Better already, aren't you? 79 00:09:54,428 --> 00:09:57,306 [ Exhales Deeply] 80 00:10:00,434 --> 00:10:02,352 Okay, baby? 81 00:10:02,436 --> 00:10:05,230 [Deborah Laughing] 82 00:10:10,986 --> 00:10:13,363 Can I go to dance tomorrow? l-l'm better. 83 00:10:13,447 --> 00:10:17,075 If you are, then I'll take Barbara to soccer and take you to dance after. 84 00:10:17,117 --> 00:10:19,620 I can take her. 85 00:10:19,661 --> 00:10:23,207 Don't you have to be at the office? 86 00:10:23,290 --> 00:10:26,752 - Is there any more rice? - Yes, it's on the stove. 87 00:10:30,339 --> 00:10:32,299 [Mother] Do you want more rice? 88 00:10:32,382 --> 00:10:34,885 -[Deborah] May be later. -[Mother] How about you? 89 00:10:34,968 --> 00:10:36,887 -[Barbara] l'll take some. - Instant rice? 90 00:10:42,726 --> 00:10:44,686 [Barbara] Can l go ower to Jeanine's house? 91 00:10:44,770 --> 00:10:49,191 - I'm sorry, darling. Have you seen my coffee mug? - Try the car. 92 00:10:55,155 --> 00:10:57,115 [ Sighs ] 93 00:11:11,129 --> 00:11:14,633 Um, what are those boxes? 94 00:11:14,716 --> 00:11:17,719 - I'm going to the store. You need anything? - What do you need at the store? 95 00:11:17,803 --> 00:11:19,888 - Soy sauce. - Right now? 96 00:11:19,972 --> 00:11:21,890 That's my stuff from the office. 97 00:11:21,974 --> 00:11:24,560 Why did you take your stuff from the office? 98 00:11:24,643 --> 00:11:27,354 - I didn't want to leave it there. - I don't understand. 99 00:11:30,983 --> 00:11:34,111 I got fired this morning. 100 00:11:34,194 --> 00:11:37,197 Where else am I gonna take it? 101 00:11:37,281 --> 00:11:40,701 Why? Who said? 102 00:11:40,784 --> 00:11:42,703 Thomas Sandefur. 103 00:11:47,207 --> 00:11:50,794 What are we supposed to do? 104 00:11:50,878 --> 00:11:54,631 What about our medical coverage? What about our health? 105 00:11:54,715 --> 00:11:59,428 What about our... car payments? The payments on this house? 106 00:12:07,686 --> 00:12:10,189 The severance agreement includes cash payoffs over time... 107 00:12:10,272 --> 00:12:13,066 and continuing medical coverage. 108 00:12:13,108 --> 00:12:15,569 - [ Gasps ] - Sure you don't need anything? 109 00:12:15,652 --> 00:12:17,905 No, thank you. 110 00:12:20,866 --> 00:12:22,993 [Engine Starts] 111 00:12:25,746 --> 00:12:28,457 Jeffrey? 112 00:12:40,385 --> 00:12:43,680 [ Men Speaking ln Arabic ] 113 00:12:45,891 --> 00:12:50,479 I am very pleased to receive you as my guest, Mr. Wallace. 114 00:12:50,562 --> 00:12:54,691 - Well, thank you for having us. - Think l got a problem with the gennie. 115 00:12:54,733 --> 00:12:56,693 I gotta go outside. 116 00:12:59,696 --> 00:13:01,532 Give me a hand with this, will you? 117 00:13:04,576 --> 00:13:06,578 Norman! 118 00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:10,082 [ Speaking ln Arabic ] 119 00:13:10,123 --> 00:13:13,335 -He says, uh, you must not sit so close. -What? 120 00:13:14,795 --> 00:13:17,089 I can't conduct an interview from back there. 121 00:13:17,172 --> 00:13:20,717 - [ Translating ] - [ Speaking ln Arabic ] 122 00:13:20,801 --> 00:13:24,263 You must move back your chair. 123 00:13:24,304 --> 00:13:26,974 Well, you tell him that when I conduct an interview, 124 00:13:27,057 --> 00:13:30,227 I sit anywhere I damn please. 125 00:13:31,395 --> 00:13:35,774 - [ Translating ] - [ Speaking ln Arabic ] 126 00:13:35,816 --> 00:13:39,862 - There is no interview. - You! 127 00:13:39,945 --> 00:13:45,075 I'm talking to you! What the hell do you think I am, a 78-year-old assassin? 128 00:13:45,158 --> 00:13:48,537 You think I'm gonna karate him to death with this notepad? 129 00:13:48,620 --> 00:13:50,789 [ Speaking ln Arabic ] 130 00:13:56,086 --> 00:13:57,546 - Are you interpreting what I'm saying? - Yes. 131 00:13:57,629 --> 00:14:01,425 - We're there. - Good. Well, ask him if Arabic is his second language. 132 00:14:01,466 --> 00:14:03,719 - Don't interpret that. Hold it. - [ Shouting ln Arabic ] 133 00:14:03,802 --> 00:14:06,346 Hold it! Hold it! Slow. Slow. 134 00:14:06,430 --> 00:14:09,099 Sheikh, do you mind? 135 00:14:09,141 --> 00:14:11,935 If you would just turn your chair a little bit... 136 00:14:11,977 --> 00:14:14,688 to face Mr. Wallace. 137 00:14:16,315 --> 00:14:19,359 - Is that okay? - Okay. 138 00:14:20,986 --> 00:14:23,697 Are you ready, or do you wanna keep fucking around... 139 00:14:23,780 --> 00:14:25,699 and warm up some more? 140 00:14:25,782 --> 00:14:28,911 - No. I've got my heart started. - Okay. 141 00:14:30,162 --> 00:14:32,539 All right, Todd. 142 00:14:33,665 --> 00:14:36,293 Give me the three-button on Mike, please. 143 00:14:37,377 --> 00:14:40,964 Good. Good. 144 00:14:41,048 --> 00:14:44,301 Okay, we are rolling. 145 00:14:44,384 --> 00:14:46,929 [ Clears Throat ] 146 00:14:47,012 --> 00:14:50,140 - Okay, Mike. - Sheikh Fadlallah. 147 00:14:50,224 --> 00:14:53,310 Thank you so much for seeing us. Are you a terrorist? 148 00:14:54,686 --> 00:14:58,607 Mr. Wallace, I am a servant of God. 149 00:14:58,690 --> 00:15:01,777 A servant of God? Really? 150 00:15:01,860 --> 00:15:05,197 Americans believe that you-- as an lslamic fundamentalist-- 151 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:10,953 that you are a leader who contributed to the bombing of the U.S. Embassy. 152 00:15:32,224 --> 00:15:37,604 Everybody thinks Canadian Mounties ride horses and rescue ladies from rapids. 153 00:15:37,688 --> 00:15:41,024 Mike, they backed locals in Oka in a fight with Mohawks... 154 00:15:41,108 --> 00:15:43,569 over building a golf course on their burial site, 155 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:46,321 -[Phone Ringing] - they beat up protesters at Kanasake-- 156 00:15:48,782 --> 00:15:50,742 - Where'd you hear that? - Hello. 157 00:15:50,784 --> 00:15:54,663 Oh, someone took a poll? "Are all things Canadian boring?" 158 00:15:54,746 --> 00:15:57,040 - It's Stuart. He's in Mexico City. - Oh. Let me call you back. 159 00:15:58,083 --> 00:16:00,460 Yeah, Stuart? 160 00:16:00,544 --> 00:16:03,297 - What New York bank? - Hey, Dad. 161 00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:06,550 Will he go on camera and talk about the Mexico City branch? 162 00:16:06,633 --> 00:16:08,760 - Hey, Jake. - Whose money are they laundering? 163 00:16:08,844 --> 00:16:12,055 - No classes this morning? - I don't have to be there till 1 0:30. 164 00:16:12,097 --> 00:16:15,642 - Hey, Mom. Hello. - Hi, sweetheart. 165 00:16:15,726 --> 00:16:17,811 [Phone Ringing] 166 00:16:19,688 --> 00:16:22,316 - Hello? Yeah. - Do independent sources corroborate? 167 00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:29,990 - Dad, you got a box out here. - Let me see this a second. 168 00:16:30,073 --> 00:16:33,702 - [ Chuckles ] - 'Cause I gotta know where you're going at all times. 169 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,416 [Door Closes] 170 00:16:45,506 --> 00:16:48,258 I can't. I've gotta fly to Boston tomorrow. 171 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:50,636 2:00 P.M. Great. 172 00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:54,473 - Bye-bye. - "ignition propensity." 173 00:16:54,890 --> 00:16:57,267 You understand any of this? 174 00:17:00,771 --> 00:17:02,814 No. [ Chuckles ] 175 00:17:03,982 --> 00:17:06,777 Uh, this looks like a table of temperatures. 176 00:17:06,860 --> 00:17:10,405 - Who's this from? - It's anonymous. 177 00:17:10,489 --> 00:17:13,033 References to " P.M." 178 00:17:13,116 --> 00:17:15,118 It's gotta be Phillip Morris, huh? 179 00:17:15,202 --> 00:17:18,080 Hmm. I have to take a shower. 180 00:17:22,709 --> 00:17:25,170 [Pager Beeping] 181 00:17:35,347 --> 00:17:38,600 - [ Phone Ringing ] - Yeah? 182 00:17:38,684 --> 00:17:40,644 Hi. This is Doug Oliver. 183 00:17:40,686 --> 00:17:42,813 Oh, hi, Doug. It's Lowell. 184 00:17:42,896 --> 00:17:46,567 I'm doing this story on fire safety, and people burning up from falling asleep smoking. 185 00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:51,113 I receive a shit load of scientific papers from inside Phillip Morris. 186 00:17:51,196 --> 00:17:54,324 Anonymous. You or anybody in F.D.A. know someone... 187 00:17:54,408 --> 00:17:57,119 who can translate this stuff into English for me? 188 00:17:57,202 --> 00:17:59,329 Uh, yeah. 189 00:18:09,423 --> 00:18:12,676 - [ Line Ringing ] - [Phone Ringing] 190 00:18:15,804 --> 00:18:19,349 - Hello? - Uh, Mr. Wigand, please? 191 00:18:19,433 --> 00:18:23,437 Someone's calling for Daddy, Mom. 192 00:18:26,523 --> 00:18:28,859 - Oh. Thank you, Bob. - Who's calling? 193 00:18:28,942 --> 00:18:31,111 Uh, my name is Lowell Bergman. 194 00:18:31,195 --> 00:18:35,908 - Did you say " Berman"? - No, Bergman. B-E-R-G-M-A-N. 195 00:18:35,949 --> 00:18:38,493 - I'm a producer for 60 Minutes. - 60 Minutes? 196 00:18:38,577 --> 00:18:41,538 - Yeah. - 60 Minutes, the television show? 197 00:18:41,622 --> 00:18:45,000 - Yes. - He doesn't want to talk to you. 198 00:18:47,252 --> 00:18:50,005 How does he know he doesn't want to talk to me? He doesn't know what I'm calling him about. 199 00:18:50,088 --> 00:18:52,633 He doesn't care to know. 200 00:18:53,717 --> 00:18:55,844 [ Dial Tone ] 201 00:19:05,521 --> 00:19:08,190 [Dialing Numbers] 202 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,778 [ Phone Ringing ] 203 00:19:14,738 --> 00:19:17,908 -[Phone Ringing] -[Wigand On Answering Machine] This is the Wigands'. 204 00:19:17,991 --> 00:19:21,453 - If you'd like to leave a message or send a fax, start now. -[Beeps] 205 00:19:21,537 --> 00:19:24,498 This is Lowell Bergman with 60 Minutes, and l'm doing a story... 206 00:19:24,581 --> 00:19:26,625 on fire safety and cigarettes. 207 00:19:26,708 --> 00:19:29,795 I have scientific documents from a tobacco company, 208 00:19:29,878 --> 00:19:32,631 and lcould use your help as a consultant... 209 00:19:32,714 --> 00:19:34,675 explaining these documents tome. 210 00:19:34,716 --> 00:19:40,639 Now, my number is area code 510-555-0199. 211 00:19:40,681 --> 00:19:45,477 - I'll be there at this number in ten minutes. -[Hangs Up] 212 00:20:34,151 --> 00:20:36,778 [Phone Rings] 213 00:20:52,419 --> 00:20:54,463 [ Beeps ] 214 00:21:14,107 --> 00:21:16,443 [Phone Rings] 215 00:21:33,293 --> 00:21:35,420 [ Beeps ] 216 00:22:13,959 --> 00:22:17,004 If you're curious to meet me, 217 00:22:17,087 --> 00:22:22,050 I'm gonna be in the lobby of the Seelbach Hotel in Louisville... 218 00:22:22,134 --> 00:22:26,138 reading The New York Times tomorrow at 5:00. 219 00:22:26,221 --> 00:22:28,974 [Hangs Up] 220 00:22:37,065 --> 00:22:39,151 [Elevator Bell Dings] 221 00:23:29,868 --> 00:23:31,912 [ Elevator Bell Dings ] 222 00:23:44,758 --> 00:23:47,386 [Bergman] Have you always lived in Louiswille? 223 00:23:47,427 --> 00:23:51,557 Mr. Bergman, what did you want me to consult about? 224 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,185 - [Knock On Door] - Who's that? 225 00:23:56,854 --> 00:24:00,107 That's room service. 226 00:24:00,190 --> 00:24:02,943 They usually knock first. 227 00:24:03,026 --> 00:24:05,237 Come on in. 228 00:24:05,279 --> 00:24:07,364 Over here, please. 229 00:24:16,373 --> 00:24:20,711 - Thank you. - How do you like your coffee? Black? 230 00:24:20,794 --> 00:24:23,755 Black. Black. 231 00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:26,884 I really don't have that much time. [ Clears Throat ] 232 00:24:29,136 --> 00:24:31,763 Is there anything you want to know about me, Mr. Wigand? 233 00:24:31,847 --> 00:24:33,974 Like what? Your sign? 234 00:24:37,311 --> 00:24:39,396 I know what I have to know. 235 00:24:39,479 --> 00:24:43,275 Just so I know you know, when I talk to people in confidence, 236 00:24:43,317 --> 00:24:45,277 it stays that way. 237 00:24:47,696 --> 00:24:51,617 How did a radical journalist from Ramparts magazine end up at CBS? 238 00:24:54,453 --> 00:24:56,914 I still do the tough stories. 239 00:24:56,997 --> 00:24:59,374 60 Minutes reaches a lot of people. 240 00:25:01,543 --> 00:25:03,754 Let me see the documents. 241 00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:34,117 This is a, um, 242 00:25:34,159 --> 00:25:38,080 fire-safety product study for Phillip Morris. 243 00:25:38,163 --> 00:25:42,125 Burn rates, ignition propensity, things of this nature. 244 00:25:42,167 --> 00:25:45,045 I could very easily explain this to you in layman's terms... 245 00:25:45,128 --> 00:25:47,047 because it's from another company. 246 00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:50,884 - But that's as far as I go. - As far as you go where? 247 00:25:51,969 --> 00:25:53,887 This issue is a drop in the bucket. 248 00:25:53,971 --> 00:25:55,973 I can talk to you about what's in here, but l-- 249 00:25:56,056 --> 00:25:58,684 I can't talk to you about anything else. 250 00:26:02,813 --> 00:26:06,024 I signed a confidentiality agreement. I honor agreements. 251 00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:12,489 Doesn't CBS have confidentiality agreements, Mr. Bergman? 252 00:26:12,573 --> 00:26:16,410 Between journalists and management, yes, I believe they do. 253 00:26:16,493 --> 00:26:19,830 But I don't take that seriously. Where do you work? 254 00:26:19,913 --> 00:26:21,832 Did work. 255 00:26:21,915 --> 00:26:26,044 - Did work? - How much would I get paid? 256 00:26:29,381 --> 00:26:32,843 That you have to discuss with CBS Business Affairs. 257 00:26:32,926 --> 00:26:37,556 But for something like this, I would say anywhere between ten, 1 2 thousand. 258 00:26:41,518 --> 00:26:43,604 Should I just take the documents now? 259 00:26:44,855 --> 00:26:47,357 If you want to do it. 260 00:26:54,031 --> 00:26:56,700 I worked as a, uh, 261 00:26:56,783 --> 00:26:59,661 head of Research and Development for Brown &Williamson. 262 00:26:59,745 --> 00:27:02,206 Tobacco company. 263 00:27:05,459 --> 00:27:08,212 I was a corporate vice president. 264 00:27:09,671 --> 00:27:12,049 Mr. Bergman. 265 00:27:24,394 --> 00:27:26,438 [Door Closes] 266 00:27:39,493 --> 00:27:41,453 [Wallace On Television] President Assad of Syria said... 267 00:27:41,495 --> 00:27:44,665 that difficult obstacles remain, but tha this country, 268 00:27:44,748 --> 00:27:49,169 "looks forward to a great long peace with lsrael." 269 00:27:49,253 --> 00:27:51,755 - [ Static ] - That's a Peabody, Mike. 270 00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:54,925 When you're dead and buried, this is the one they're gonna remember you by. 271 00:27:55,008 --> 00:27:57,052 [Chattering] 272 00:27:57,135 --> 00:27:59,388 - Are you eating with us? - Yeah. 273 00:27:59,471 --> 00:28:03,183 - Bring a tie so they let us in the front door. - [ Chuckles ] 274 00:28:03,267 --> 00:28:05,352 Come on. 275 00:28:12,609 --> 00:28:15,279 - Debbie! -[Man]Hey, Lowell. 276 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,156 Oh, Bill. Main Justice is investigating a major New York bank... 277 00:28:18,198 --> 00:28:20,659 Iaundering narco dollars out of their Mexico City branch. 278 00:28:20,742 --> 00:28:22,786 -You want it for the news? -What about you? You got a crew already? 279 00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:25,873 - I'm gonna do a follow-up. Catch you later. - Okay. 280 00:28:30,961 --> 00:28:32,880 - Debbie. - How are you? 281 00:28:32,963 --> 00:28:36,383 I want you to get Legal on a corporate confidentiality agreement. 282 00:28:36,466 --> 00:28:38,844 - Okay. - Boundaries of their constraint, 283 00:28:38,927 --> 00:28:41,847 Kentucky state law about-- 284 00:28:41,930 --> 00:28:43,849 - I want you to drop everything. - Okay. 285 00:28:43,932 --> 00:28:46,268 - I don't have any change. You got some change? - Oh, here. 286 00:28:55,194 --> 00:28:57,154 Tony. 287 00:28:59,364 --> 00:29:01,200 [ Vacuum Whirring ] 288 00:29:05,287 --> 00:29:07,789 [Whirring Continues] 289 00:29:12,461 --> 00:29:15,214 [Man] Mr. Wigand? You can go up now. 290 00:29:22,930 --> 00:29:25,098 [Quiet Chattering] 291 00:29:37,861 --> 00:29:40,155 Sorry. I'm accepting an award... 292 00:29:40,197 --> 00:29:43,992 from the Retinitis Pigmentosa Foundation. 293 00:29:44,034 --> 00:29:46,411 It's gonna kill the rest of my day. 294 00:29:52,042 --> 00:29:56,171 So, have you had a chance to play golf? 295 00:29:56,255 --> 00:30:00,092 Jeffs a premier golfer. What are you, a two handicap? 296 00:30:00,175 --> 00:30:03,387 - Seven. - And he gets out there... 297 00:30:03,470 --> 00:30:06,139 and he has five strokes on us. 298 00:30:06,181 --> 00:30:09,476 He has more concentration than anybody I've ever met. 299 00:30:09,518 --> 00:30:12,980 It's spooky how he can concentrate. 300 00:30:15,941 --> 00:30:18,193 I'd rather play than talk about it. 301 00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:22,489 What did you want to see me about? 302 00:30:22,573 --> 00:30:24,533 I don't like being back here. 303 00:30:24,575 --> 00:30:27,369 Jeffrey says exactly what's on his mind. 304 00:30:27,411 --> 00:30:30,372 Most people consider what they're saying-- social skills. 305 00:30:30,414 --> 00:30:33,375 Jeffrey just charges right ahead. 306 00:30:33,417 --> 00:30:38,422 Now, I know you understood the nature of the confidentiality portion... 307 00:30:38,505 --> 00:30:41,383 of your severance agreement with Brown &Williamson. 308 00:30:41,425 --> 00:30:44,386 - Chapter and verse. - Yeah, I know you do. 309 00:30:44,428 --> 00:30:48,390 You know, I came up through sales. 310 00:30:48,473 --> 00:30:50,851 One of the reasons I was a great salesman... 311 00:30:50,893 --> 00:30:53,979 was I never made a promise I couldn't keep. 312 00:30:54,062 --> 00:30:56,773 I knew that if l ever broke my promise, 313 00:30:56,857 --> 00:30:59,526 I'd suffer the consequence. 314 00:30:59,610 --> 00:31:01,486 Is that a threat? 315 00:31:02,779 --> 00:31:06,200 We worked together for-- what was it, three years? 316 00:31:06,241 --> 00:31:09,203 Now, the work we did here is confidential, not for public scrutiny... 317 00:31:09,244 --> 00:31:11,371 any more than are one's family matters. 318 00:31:11,455 --> 00:31:13,749 You're threatening my family now too? 319 00:31:13,790 --> 00:31:17,419 [ Chuckles ] Now, don't be paranoid, Jeff. 320 00:31:17,503 --> 00:31:20,964 About the direction of research here, we may have had our differences, but-- 321 00:31:21,048 --> 00:31:25,761 Research. You declare as a badge of honor you don't even know what makes water boil. 322 00:31:25,802 --> 00:31:28,305 Well, that's why we hire scientists. 323 00:31:28,388 --> 00:31:31,683 [ Scoffs ] Okay. 324 00:31:31,767 --> 00:31:34,603 I don't believe that you can maintain corporate integrity... 325 00:31:34,645 --> 00:31:37,439 without confidentiality agreements. 326 00:31:37,523 --> 00:31:39,566 I was paid well for my work, 327 00:31:39,608 --> 00:31:42,653 the health and welfare benefits are good, 328 00:31:42,736 --> 00:31:45,113 the severance package is fair. 329 00:31:45,155 --> 00:31:49,117 I have no intention of violating my confidentiality agreement... 330 00:31:49,201 --> 00:31:52,829 and disclosing that which l said l wouldn't. 331 00:31:54,289 --> 00:31:56,708 I appreciate all that, Jeff, 332 00:31:56,792 --> 00:32:02,339 but upon reflection, we've decided to expand our zone of comfort with you, 333 00:32:02,422 --> 00:32:05,509 so we've drafted a supplement to your agreement. 334 00:32:06,885 --> 00:32:10,222 It broadly defines and expands in more detail... 335 00:32:10,305 --> 00:32:12,266 what is confidential. 336 00:32:12,307 --> 00:32:16,103 Nobody will be able to say, "Well, hell's bells, Margaret, 337 00:32:16,144 --> 00:32:18,730 I didn't know that was a secret." 338 00:32:18,814 --> 00:32:22,067 We're very serious about protecting our interests. 339 00:32:22,150 --> 00:32:24,903 We'd like you to sign it. 340 00:32:26,446 --> 00:32:28,615 And if l don't? 341 00:32:28,657 --> 00:32:32,119 If we arrive at the conclusion that you're acting in bad faith, 342 00:32:32,202 --> 00:32:36,164 we would terminate right now payoffs under your severance package, 343 00:32:36,206 --> 00:32:41,336 you and your family's medical benefits and initiate litigation against you, Mr. Wigand. 344 00:32:42,838 --> 00:32:46,758 - Dr. Wigand. - Dr. Wigand. 345 00:32:46,842 --> 00:32:50,470 If you've examined the document, you'll see it's in your own best interest... 346 00:32:50,554 --> 00:32:52,681 and you'll sign it. 347 00:32:58,478 --> 00:33:02,983 What you're saying is it isn't enough that you fired me for no good reason. 348 00:33:03,025 --> 00:33:05,068 Now you question my integrity? 349 00:33:05,152 --> 00:33:09,823 On top of the humiliation of being fired, you threaten me, 350 00:33:09,865 --> 00:33:13,202 you threaten my family. 351 00:33:13,285 --> 00:33:16,413 It never crossed my mind not to honor my agreement. 352 00:33:16,496 --> 00:33:19,458 I will tell you, Mr. Sandefur-- and Brown &Williamson too-- 353 00:33:19,541 --> 00:33:22,711 Fuck me? Well, fuck you! 354 00:33:32,554 --> 00:33:35,724 I'm not sure he got the message. 355 00:33:35,807 --> 00:33:38,519 Oh, I think he did. 356 00:33:38,602 --> 00:33:41,271 [ Horn Honking ] 357 00:33:45,108 --> 00:33:47,402 [ Line Ringing ] 358 00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:50,906 [ Chuckles ] 359 00:33:50,989 --> 00:33:52,741 - Yeah. - You fucked me! 360 00:33:53,992 --> 00:33:56,537 - Who's this? - Protect your sources? 361 00:33:56,620 --> 00:33:58,580 You screwed me. You sold me out. 362 00:34:00,415 --> 00:34:05,087 - What are you talking about? Where are you? - Fuck you too! 363 00:34:23,939 --> 00:34:26,483 [ Sighs ] 364 00:34:34,449 --> 00:34:36,410 [Ball Clanging] 365 00:34:38,829 --> 00:34:40,873 [Ball Clattering] 366 00:34:47,796 --> 00:34:51,008 [Ball Clanging] 367 00:35:44,645 --> 00:35:46,813 [ Exhales Deeply] 368 00:36:20,097 --> 00:36:22,516 [Hits Ball] 369 00:36:31,358 --> 00:36:37,197 ##[Vocalizing] 370 00:37:12,482 --> 00:37:15,444 [ Breathing Deeply] 371 00:37:15,527 --> 00:37:18,405 [ Engine Starts ] 372 00:37:27,873 --> 00:37:30,167 Stay away from me. 373 00:37:31,543 --> 00:37:33,921 You stay away from me! 374 00:37:42,137 --> 00:37:45,057 Jeffrey, you forgot the lunches! 375 00:37:51,271 --> 00:37:53,524 - Mrs. Wigand? -Jump in quick. Come on. 376 00:37:53,607 --> 00:37:57,152 How do you do? I'm Lowell Bergman. We spoke on the phone. 377 00:37:59,279 --> 00:38:02,282 - Come here. I want to talk to you. - Good. I want to talk to you. 378 00:38:02,366 --> 00:38:05,285 - This is my house. In front of my wife, my kids? - I did not burn you. 379 00:38:05,327 --> 00:38:07,538 I did not give you up to anyone. 380 00:38:07,621 --> 00:38:10,791 - What business do we have? - I'm here to straighten something out with you. 381 00:38:10,832 --> 00:38:12,835 Right here, right now. 382 00:38:12,876 --> 00:38:15,504 You haven't mentioned my name? You haven't talked to anybody about me? 383 00:38:15,587 --> 00:38:17,005 - What am I gonna mention your name for? - Why are Brown &Williamson-- 384 00:38:17,089 --> 00:38:19,007 How the hell do I know about Brown &Williamson? 385 00:38:19,091 --> 00:38:22,553 It happened just after I talked to you. I do not like coincidences. 386 00:38:22,636 --> 00:38:25,556 Well, I don't like paranoid accusations. I'm a journalist. 387 00:38:25,639 --> 00:38:29,768 Think. Use your head. How do I operate as a journalist? By screwing the people... 388 00:38:29,852 --> 00:38:34,064 who could provide me with information before they provided me with it? 389 00:38:34,147 --> 00:38:37,484 - You came all the way down here to tell me that? - No, I did not. 390 00:38:37,568 --> 00:38:39,611 Big Tobacco is a big story, 391 00:38:39,695 --> 00:38:42,072 and you got something important to say. I can tell. 392 00:38:42,155 --> 00:38:45,701 But yes, I did. I came all the way down here to tell you-- 393 00:38:45,784 --> 00:38:48,829 Story, no story-- fuck your story. 394 00:38:50,414 --> 00:38:53,208 I don't burn people. 395 00:39:00,757 --> 00:39:02,926 [Engine Starts] 396 00:39:24,156 --> 00:39:26,867 Ride with me while I take the girls to school. 397 00:39:55,854 --> 00:39:58,065 [Wigand] My little girl has a cute asthma. 398 00:39:58,148 --> 00:40:01,860 Deborah, my oldest daughter. 399 00:40:01,944 --> 00:40:05,280 And I'm unemployed, so I have to protect my medical coverage. 400 00:40:07,449 --> 00:40:11,411 So I left them a message this morning. Their expanded confidentiality agreement-- 401 00:40:13,580 --> 00:40:16,250 I will sign it. 402 00:40:16,333 --> 00:40:19,086 - They're afraid of you, aren't they? - They should be. 403 00:40:25,884 --> 00:40:28,720 Talk to me outside the zone of your agreement. 404 00:40:28,804 --> 00:40:32,850 - Like what? - Like, uh, where'd you work before Brown &Williamson? 405 00:40:32,933 --> 00:40:35,227 Johnson &ohnson. 406 00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:37,312 Union Carbide in Japan. 407 00:40:37,396 --> 00:40:40,858 I was the general manager and director of new products. I speak Japanese. 408 00:40:40,941 --> 00:40:45,279 I was a director of corporate development at Pfizer. 409 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,948 All health-related. 410 00:40:50,450 --> 00:40:52,411 What else outside the zone? 411 00:40:54,788 --> 00:40:57,374 I don't know. Do you think the Knicks are gonna make it to the semifinals? 412 00:41:03,046 --> 00:41:07,301 [Barge Approaching, Departing] 413 00:41:10,554 --> 00:41:12,389 -Just give me an example. - Okay. 414 00:41:12,472 --> 00:41:15,350 For example, um, James Burke. 415 00:41:15,392 --> 00:41:17,519 - C.E.O. of Johnson &Johnson. - Yeah. 416 00:41:17,561 --> 00:41:22,399 When he found out that some lunatic had put poison in Tylenol bottles, 417 00:41:22,482 --> 00:41:24,401 he didn't argue with the F.D.A. 418 00:41:24,484 --> 00:41:27,154 He didn't even wait for the F.D.A. to tell him. He just pulled Tylenol... 419 00:41:27,237 --> 00:41:31,575 off every shelf of every store right across America, instantly. 420 00:41:31,658 --> 00:41:34,828 [ Chuckles ] And then he developed a safety cap. 421 00:41:34,912 --> 00:41:39,499 Because as a C.E.O., sure, he's gotta be a great businessman, right? 422 00:41:39,583 --> 00:41:42,002 But he's also a man of science. 423 00:41:42,085 --> 00:41:47,382 He's not gonna allow his company to put on the shelf a product that might hurt people. 424 00:41:47,424 --> 00:41:49,551 Not like the Seven Dwarfs. 425 00:41:49,593 --> 00:41:52,387 - Seven Dwarfs? - Seven C.E.O.s of Big Tobacco. 426 00:41:52,429 --> 00:41:54,556 They got in front of Congress that time. It was on television. 427 00:41:54,598 --> 00:41:57,309 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Swore under oath that they know nothing about addiction-- 428 00:41:57,392 --> 00:41:59,394 It was on C-SPAN. Yeah. 429 00:41:59,436 --> 00:42:04,566 Okay, so, here you are. You-You-You go to work for tobacco. 430 00:42:04,608 --> 00:42:07,528 You come from corporate cultures where research-- 431 00:42:07,611 --> 00:42:10,239 really creative thinking-- these are core values. 432 00:42:10,322 --> 00:42:13,700 You go to tobacco. Tobacco is a sales culture-- 433 00:42:13,784 --> 00:42:16,828 market and sell enormous volume, go to a lot of golf tournaments. 434 00:42:16,912 --> 00:42:19,164 The hell with everything else. What are you doing? 435 00:42:19,248 --> 00:42:21,959 - Why are you working for tobacco in the first place? - I can't talk about it. 436 00:42:22,042 --> 00:42:24,753 - [ Laughs ] - The work I was supposed to do... 437 00:42:24,837 --> 00:42:27,923 might have had some positive effect, I don't know. 438 00:42:27,965 --> 00:42:32,678 Could have been beneficial. Mostly, I got paid a lot. 439 00:42:32,761 --> 00:42:36,014 I took the money. My wife was happy. 440 00:42:36,098 --> 00:42:39,351 My kids had good medical, good schools. Got a great house. 441 00:42:39,434 --> 00:42:41,645 I mean, what the hell is wrong with that? 442 00:42:41,728 --> 00:42:44,273 Nothing's wrong with that. That's it. You're making money. 443 00:42:44,356 --> 00:42:47,025 You're providing for your family. What could be wrong with that? 444 00:42:50,112 --> 00:42:53,866 I always thought of myself as a man of science, that's what's wrong with it. 445 00:42:55,868 --> 00:42:58,954 Then you're in a state of conflict, Jeff. 446 00:42:59,037 --> 00:43:01,748 Because look, here's how it lays out. 447 00:43:01,832 --> 00:43:03,792 If you've got vital insider stuff, 448 00:43:03,834 --> 00:43:06,503 the American people, for their welfare, really do need to know, 449 00:43:06,587 --> 00:43:08,547 and you feel impelled to disclose it... 450 00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:11,800 and violate your agreement in doing so, that's one thing. 451 00:43:11,884 --> 00:43:15,804 On the other hand, if you want to honor this agreement, 452 00:43:15,846 --> 00:43:18,140 then that's simple-- you do so. 453 00:43:18,182 --> 00:43:20,392 You say nothing, you do nothing. 454 00:43:20,475 --> 00:43:23,687 There's only one guy who can figure that out for you, 455 00:43:23,770 --> 00:43:26,607 and that's you all by yourself. 456 00:43:32,738 --> 00:43:34,865 I gotta go pick up the girls. They only had a half a day. 457 00:43:34,948 --> 00:43:37,659 [ Engine Starts ] 458 00:43:54,301 --> 00:43:57,012 [Man] l've heard virtually all the-- We touched on it-- 459 00:43:57,054 --> 00:44:00,807 - Yes or no, do you believe nicotine is not addictive? - [Man] Congressman, 460 00:44:00,891 --> 00:44:06,063 cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction. 461 00:44:06,146 --> 00:44:08,815 - There is no intoxication. - [ Congressman ] We'll take that as no. 462 00:44:08,899 --> 00:44:10,859 - [ Chuckling ] - [ Congressman ] Again, time is short. 463 00:44:10,943 --> 00:44:13,529 I think each of you believe nicotine is not addictive... 464 00:44:13,570 --> 00:44:15,948 and just would like to have this for the record. 465 00:44:16,031 --> 00:44:20,077 I believe that nicotine is not addictive. 466 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,579 I too believe that nicotine-- 467 00:44:22,621 --> 00:44:25,666 He referred to this-- the Sewen Dwarfs-- 468 00:44:25,749 --> 00:44:28,710 - What Seven Dwarfs? - The seven C.E.O. of Big Tobacco-- referred to this. 469 00:44:28,794 --> 00:44:32,840 Said they should be afraid of him. I assume afraid of what he could reveal. 470 00:44:32,923 --> 00:44:37,761 Now you tell me. What does this guy have to say that threatens these people? 471 00:44:37,845 --> 00:44:40,013 Well, it isn't cigarettes are bad for you. 472 00:44:40,097 --> 00:44:42,349 - Hardly new news. - No shit. 473 00:44:43,976 --> 00:44:48,522 - What's this? - What that is is tobacco's standard defense. 474 00:44:48,605 --> 00:44:50,524 It's the "we don't know" litany. 475 00:44:50,607 --> 00:44:54,444 Addiction? We believe not. Disease? We don't know. 476 00:44:54,486 --> 00:44:57,322 We take a bunch of leaves, we roll them together, you smoke 'em. 477 00:44:57,406 --> 00:45:00,742 After that, you're on your own. We don't know. 478 00:45:00,784 --> 00:45:02,870 So, that tells me nothing. 479 00:45:02,953 --> 00:45:06,164 - Besides, you'll never get what he's got. - Why not? 480 00:45:06,248 --> 00:45:08,292 Because of this guy's confidentiality agreement, 481 00:45:08,375 --> 00:45:10,752 he's never gonna be able to talk to you. 482 00:45:10,794 --> 00:45:13,422 That's not good enough. This guy is the top scientist... 483 00:45:13,505 --> 00:45:15,966 in the number-three tobacco company in America. 484 00:45:16,049 --> 00:45:20,012 He's a corporate officer. You never get whistle-blowers from Fortune 500 companies. 485 00:45:20,095 --> 00:45:22,764 This guy is the ultimate insider. 486 00:45:22,848 --> 00:45:25,893 He's got something to say. He wants to say it. I want it on 60 Minutes. 487 00:45:25,976 --> 00:45:28,103 - Doesn't matter what he wants. -[Wallace] Am l missing something here? 488 00:45:28,145 --> 00:45:31,440 -What do you mean, Mike? -He's got a corporate secrecy agreement. 489 00:45:31,481 --> 00:45:33,734 Give me a break. 490 00:45:33,817 --> 00:45:37,654 This is a public health issue, like an unsafe air frame on a passenger jet... 491 00:45:37,696 --> 00:45:40,490 or some company dumping cyanide into the East River. 492 00:45:40,574 --> 00:45:43,285 Issues like that. He can talk, we can air it. 493 00:45:43,327 --> 00:45:46,872 They've got no right to hide behind a corporate agreement. Pass the milk. 494 00:45:46,955 --> 00:45:49,625 They don't need the right. They got the money. 495 00:45:49,666 --> 00:45:53,045 The unlimited checkbook. That's how Big Tobacco wins... 496 00:45:53,128 --> 00:45:55,130 every time on everything. 497 00:45:55,172 --> 00:46:00,344 They spend you to death. $600 million a year in outside legal. 498 00:46:00,427 --> 00:46:04,348 Chadbourne-Park, Ken Starr's firm, Kirkland and Ellis. 499 00:46:04,431 --> 00:46:07,142 Listen, G.M. and Ford, they get nailed... 500 00:46:07,184 --> 00:46:10,187 after 11 or 12 pickups blow up, right? 501 00:46:10,270 --> 00:46:13,482 -These clowns have never-- I mean ever-- -[Man] Not even once. 502 00:46:13,524 --> 00:46:17,027 Not even with hundreds of thousands dying each year from an illness... 503 00:46:17,110 --> 00:46:20,781 related to their product have ever lost a personal injury lawsuit. 504 00:46:20,864 --> 00:46:24,243 On this case, they'll issue gag orders, sue for breach-- anticipatory breach-- 505 00:46:24,326 --> 00:46:29,081 enjoin him, you, us, his pet dog, the dog's veterinarian, 506 00:46:29,164 --> 00:46:32,584 tie 'em up in litigation for ten or 1 5 years, I'm telling you, they bat a thousand. 507 00:46:32,668 --> 00:46:36,380 Every time. He knows that. That's why he's not gonna talk to you. 508 00:46:43,470 --> 00:46:47,349 Okay, let's look through the looking glass the other way. 509 00:46:47,391 --> 00:46:50,018 What do you mean? 510 00:46:50,060 --> 00:46:52,437 We got a guy who wants to talk, but he's constrained. 511 00:46:52,521 --> 00:46:55,691 - What if he were compelled to talk? - Oh, torture. Great ratings. 512 00:46:55,732 --> 00:46:57,901 [ Chuckles ] What do you mean, "compelled"? 513 00:46:57,985 --> 00:47:01,154 I mean, compelled by a, uh, Justice Department. 514 00:47:01,238 --> 00:47:03,365 State courts. Be a witness. 515 00:47:03,448 --> 00:47:06,702 That would cut through any confidentiality agreement, wouldn't it? 516 00:47:06,743 --> 00:47:09,121 - What does that do? - What do you mean, what does it do? 517 00:47:09,204 --> 00:47:12,541 What I mean is like, how does it cut through the confidentiality agreement? 518 00:47:12,583 --> 00:47:15,419 Because he has to, uh, reveal it in a court of law. 519 00:47:15,502 --> 00:47:18,255 It's on record. It's out. It's no secret anymore. 520 00:47:18,338 --> 00:47:22,176 So how can they restrain his speech or retaliate? It's out in the world. 521 00:47:22,259 --> 00:47:24,887 If you could engineer it into the court record, you might have something. 522 00:47:24,928 --> 00:47:27,973 They would have a hell of a time trying to restrain his speech then, wouldn't they? 523 00:47:28,056 --> 00:47:31,810 Yeah, but what venue? And where does he get-- Does he have killer attorneys? 524 00:47:31,894 --> 00:47:34,771 I don't think he's got any attorneys. 525 00:47:34,855 --> 00:47:38,400 He's gonna need attorneys who aren't afraid of risking years of litigation... 526 00:47:38,483 --> 00:47:42,821 and millions of dollars of their own dough in legal costs. 527 00:47:42,905 --> 00:47:45,407 What do you say, Mike? What do you think? 528 00:47:47,993 --> 00:47:50,495 Even if he gets the defense team, 529 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,586 will he go for it? 530 00:48:03,675 --> 00:48:06,803 You're awfully over qualified, Dr. Wigand. 531 00:48:08,805 --> 00:48:11,225 [ Clears Throat ] 532 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,979 I'm trying to start a new career. 533 00:48:17,898 --> 00:48:19,942 I believe I could be a good teacher. 534 00:48:24,821 --> 00:48:26,740 Let me give it some thought. 535 00:48:31,286 --> 00:48:35,499 And not a lot of companies in the health care field hire ex-tobacco scientists. 536 00:49:09,741 --> 00:49:11,660 That's it. 537 00:49:20,002 --> 00:49:22,921 It's where our babies were born. 538 00:49:26,675 --> 00:49:29,052 Debbie took her first steps right there on-- 539 00:49:31,180 --> 00:49:33,098 In the grass. 540 00:49:36,185 --> 00:49:39,771 - I didn't plan on this. - Hey, hey, hey. 541 00:49:39,855 --> 00:49:41,940 Come on. Come on. 542 00:49:45,986 --> 00:49:50,157 We can make this work for us. Okay? 543 00:49:50,199 --> 00:49:52,159 It's just-- It's not-- 544 00:49:52,201 --> 00:49:55,037 It's just-- It's a smaller scale. 545 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,041 Simpler, easier. 546 00:49:59,082 --> 00:50:03,337 More time. More time together. 547 00:50:03,378 --> 00:50:05,672 More time with the kids. 548 00:50:05,714 --> 00:50:08,550 More time for us. Okay? It's just-- 549 00:50:11,386 --> 00:50:15,057 Can you imagine me coming home from some job... 550 00:50:15,140 --> 00:50:17,309 feeling good at the end of the day? 551 00:50:19,770 --> 00:50:21,730 This is gonna be better. 552 00:50:24,399 --> 00:50:26,735 This is gonna be better. 553 00:50:32,241 --> 00:50:34,660 ##[Radio] 554 00:50:40,249 --> 00:50:42,209 [Dishes Clattering] 555 00:50:45,420 --> 00:50:48,173 [Man On Radio] Love your home with beautiful Broyhill furniture-- 556 00:50:48,257 --> 00:50:50,342 [Indistinct] 557 00:50:50,425 --> 00:50:54,555 You'll find incredible sale prices through out Smith's Broyhill show case gallery, 558 00:50:54,596 --> 00:50:57,850 with extra sawings on every style for every room in your home. 559 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,986 If you've been putting off decorating that special room, 560 00:51:09,069 --> 00:51:13,031 now's the time to act during the lowe-your-home sale at Smith's. 561 00:51:14,408 --> 00:51:16,743 - Back to-- -[Woman On Radio] Welcome back. 562 00:51:32,134 --> 00:51:34,595 Hey, baby. What's wrong? 563 00:51:34,636 --> 00:51:36,763 Who's that outside, Daddy? 564 00:51:38,974 --> 00:51:41,768 - Did you see somebody or did you hear them? - I heard him. 565 00:51:43,395 --> 00:51:45,981 - Where? - In the backyard. 566 00:52:02,915 --> 00:52:05,792 Sit at Daddy's desk, okay? Why don't you sit up at the desk. 567 00:52:05,834 --> 00:52:07,794 All right? [ Clears Throat ] 568 00:52:07,836 --> 00:52:11,965 Get out some paper, and draw me a picture. Okay? 569 00:52:17,513 --> 00:52:21,642 What are you gonna draw me, baby? An animal? Something like that? 570 00:52:21,683 --> 00:52:24,853 You stay down here until Daddy gets back, all right, Barbara? 571 00:52:24,937 --> 00:52:26,855 You stay down here. 572 00:53:24,246 --> 00:53:26,582 You almost got your damn head blown off. 573 00:54:06,413 --> 00:54:08,332 Daddy! 574 00:54:09,458 --> 00:54:13,253 It was just a racoon, baby. Nothin'. 575 00:54:13,295 --> 00:54:15,797 They're nocturnal. You know what that means? 576 00:54:15,881 --> 00:54:18,300 That means that they only come out at nighttime. 577 00:54:28,393 --> 00:54:29,686 [Phone Ringing] 578 00:54:31,396 --> 00:54:32,564 - Yeah. - Lowell. Jeffrey Wigand. 579 00:54:32,564 --> 00:54:35,400 - Yeah. - Lowell. Jeffrey Wigand. 580 00:54:35,442 --> 00:54:38,737 Is it too late? 581 00:54:38,820 --> 00:54:40,906 No, no, it's okay. I-- 582 00:54:40,989 --> 00:54:42,908 How-How's the new place? 583 00:54:42,991 --> 00:54:45,410 The new place? New. 584 00:54:45,452 --> 00:54:48,914 - You okay? - Sure. 585 00:54:48,956 --> 00:54:52,417 I was thinking of calling you tomorrow anyway. 586 00:54:52,459 --> 00:54:57,130 - Uh, how's your kids, uh, handling the new house? - Good. 587 00:54:57,214 --> 00:55:00,425 - You got kids? - We have a couple. 588 00:55:00,509 --> 00:55:04,471 One's hers, one's mine. Everybody uses a different name. 589 00:55:04,555 --> 00:55:06,473 Modern marriage. 590 00:55:06,557 --> 00:55:08,767 Uh, how's Liane? 591 00:55:10,477 --> 00:55:13,772 Uh, she's okay. Uh-- 592 00:55:13,856 --> 00:55:15,774 Hold on a minute. 593 00:55:22,531 --> 00:55:24,950 Lowell. 594 00:55:25,033 --> 00:55:28,245 Somebody may be following me. I-l don't know. They came on the property. 595 00:55:28,328 --> 00:55:31,582 What do you mean, following you? Did you call the police? 596 00:55:31,665 --> 00:55:34,626 I-l don't wanna be paranoid. I mean-- 597 00:55:34,710 --> 00:55:38,422 - Maybe it's a game. Some kind of mind game. - What do you really think? 598 00:55:38,505 --> 00:55:40,424 I don't know what the fuck I really think. 599 00:55:40,507 --> 00:55:43,468 Are they doing it? ls some crank doing it? 600 00:55:43,552 --> 00:55:45,470 Are they doing it to make me feel paranoid? 601 00:55:45,554 --> 00:55:48,473 Are they doing it for real and don't give a shit what I think? I don't know. 602 00:55:48,515 --> 00:55:51,435 - I don't fuckin' know. -Jeffrey, describe for me... 603 00:55:51,518 --> 00:55:53,478 in detail what happened. 604 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,564 Well-- 605 00:55:55,647 --> 00:55:59,193 No. Look, I mean, there was a footprint. Forget it. 606 00:55:59,276 --> 00:56:01,778 It's probably not important at all. 607 00:56:01,862 --> 00:56:06,700 You know, I got a job now. I'm teaching high school. Japanese and Chemistry. 608 00:56:08,744 --> 00:56:11,955 Uh, so, uh, what were you calling about? 609 00:56:12,039 --> 00:56:15,459 - You called me. - No, you said you were gonna call me tomorrow. 610 00:56:15,542 --> 00:56:18,337 - So, what about? - Oh, yes, yes, yes. I did. I wanted to talk to you. 611 00:56:18,420 --> 00:56:23,175 I wanted to hook up with you, talk to you about what we were talking about in your car. 612 00:56:25,302 --> 00:56:27,221 Okay. 613 00:56:27,304 --> 00:56:30,807 It makes you feel good, putting what you know to use? 614 00:56:33,393 --> 00:56:36,313 - How'd you know that, Lowell? - It's obvious, isn't it? 615 00:56:39,441 --> 00:56:41,777 Hello? Are you there? 616 00:56:41,860 --> 00:56:44,321 Yeah. 617 00:56:44,404 --> 00:56:46,907 Look, um-- 618 00:56:46,990 --> 00:56:49,243 Thanks for talking. I'm sorry I woke you up. 619 00:56:49,326 --> 00:56:52,913 - I didn't know. - It's okay. 620 00:56:58,377 --> 00:57:01,338 [Phone Ringing] 621 00:57:01,421 --> 00:57:05,259 - Lowell. - [ Static On Phone Line ] 622 00:57:05,342 --> 00:57:07,261 Who is this? 623 00:57:07,344 --> 00:57:09,930 Donot call here! Donot-- 624 00:57:10,013 --> 00:57:12,432 [ Dial Tone ] 625 00:57:18,981 --> 00:57:23,318 [ Wigand Speaking Japanese ] 626 00:57:23,402 --> 00:57:25,404 [ Waitress Speaking Japanese ] 627 00:57:28,740 --> 00:57:30,659 [Japanese ] 628 00:57:34,580 --> 00:57:36,498 What are you gonna get us? 629 00:57:36,582 --> 00:57:38,542 - Tempura. - [ Laughing ] 630 00:57:42,462 --> 00:57:44,923 The lnternet said you did graduate work at Wisconsin, 631 00:57:45,007 --> 00:57:48,510 then went to U.C. La Jolla with Professor Herbert? 632 00:57:48,594 --> 00:57:50,971 - Marcus-- - Marcuse. Yeah. 633 00:57:51,054 --> 00:57:53,348 He was my mentor. 634 00:57:53,432 --> 00:57:56,602 He had a major influence on the New Left in the late '60s. 635 00:57:56,643 --> 00:57:58,687 And on me, personally. 636 00:57:58,770 --> 00:58:01,273 - Next to your father? - My father? 637 00:58:01,356 --> 00:58:03,942 What the hell's that got to do with my father? 638 00:58:06,153 --> 00:58:08,238 I, uh-- [ Clears Throat ] 639 00:58:08,322 --> 00:58:12,242 Is that why you became a journalist? Then you get to ask all the questions? 640 00:58:12,326 --> 00:58:15,704 You charge by the hour? 641 00:58:15,787 --> 00:58:18,665 My father was a-- [ Clears Throat ] a mechanical engineer. 642 00:58:18,749 --> 00:58:20,667 Most ingenious man I ever knew. 643 00:58:20,751 --> 00:58:22,753 My father left us when I was five years old. 644 00:58:22,836 --> 00:58:24,796 He was not the most ingenious man I ever knew. 645 00:58:24,838 --> 00:58:29,468 Let's get back to Brown &Williamson. If you decide to go on 60 Minutes, 646 00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:32,804 I gotta know everything about why you were fired. 647 00:58:32,846 --> 00:58:37,017 - Why? - They're gonna dig up stuff from your past. 648 00:58:37,100 --> 00:58:40,646 They're gonna throw it at you. I gotta know what they're gonna throw. 649 00:58:40,729 --> 00:58:42,648 You understand? 650 00:58:45,317 --> 00:58:47,236 I drink. 651 00:58:47,319 --> 00:58:49,988 - Couple of occasions more than I should have. - Um-hmm. 652 00:58:53,617 --> 00:58:56,954 I was cited for shoplifting once, but it was a mistake. 653 00:58:59,623 --> 00:59:02,584 Pushed Liane one time. We were both stressed out because of the pressure. 654 00:59:02,668 --> 00:59:05,337 She went to her mother's. [ Clears Throat ] 655 00:59:05,379 --> 00:59:08,382 I got, uh, fired, because, uh, 656 00:59:08,423 --> 00:59:11,260 when I get angry, I have difficulty censoring myself, 657 00:59:11,343 --> 00:59:14,179 and I don't like to be pushed around. 658 00:59:14,263 --> 00:59:17,724 I'm not pushing you around. I'm asking you questions. 659 00:59:20,227 --> 00:59:22,813 I'm just a commodity to you, aren't l? 660 00:59:22,896 --> 00:59:26,233 I could be anything, right? Anything worth putting on between commercials. 661 00:59:26,316 --> 00:59:28,694 To a network, probably, we're all commodities. 662 00:59:28,777 --> 00:59:31,238 To me, you're not a commodity. What you are is important. 663 00:59:33,156 --> 00:59:36,577 You go public, and 30 million people hear what you gotta say, 664 00:59:36,660 --> 00:59:40,205 nothing-- I mean nothing-- will ever be the same again. 665 00:59:40,289 --> 00:59:42,499 - You believe that? - No. 666 00:59:42,583 --> 00:59:45,335 You should. Because when you're done the judgement... 667 00:59:45,419 --> 00:59:49,381 is gonna go down in the court of public opinion, my friend. 668 00:59:49,464 --> 00:59:52,050 And that's... the power you have. 669 00:59:52,134 --> 00:59:55,387 - You believe that? - I believe that? 670 00:59:55,470 --> 00:59:57,389 - Yes, I believe that. - You believe that... 671 00:59:57,472 --> 01:00:00,225 - because you get information out to people, something happens? - Yes. 672 01:00:00,267 --> 01:00:03,145 Maybe that's just what you've been telling yourself all these years... 673 01:00:03,228 --> 01:00:05,147 to justify having a good job. 674 01:00:05,230 --> 01:00:07,191 Having status. 675 01:00:07,232 --> 01:00:10,277 Maybe for the audience it's just voyeurism, something to do on a Sunday night. 676 01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,362 Maybe it won't change a fuckin' thing, 677 01:00:12,446 --> 01:00:14,907 and people like myself and my family... 678 01:00:14,990 --> 01:00:19,119 are left hung out to dry, used up, broke, alone. 679 01:00:19,203 --> 01:00:22,206 Are you talking to me, or did somebody else just walk in here? I never-- 680 01:00:22,247 --> 01:00:24,082 [ Both Talking At Once ] 681 01:00:24,124 --> 01:00:27,961 Don't evade a choice you gotta make by questioning my reputation... 682 01:00:28,045 --> 01:00:30,422 or 60 Minutes with this cheap skepticism. 683 01:00:30,506 --> 01:00:33,425 I have to put my family's welfare on the line here, my friend. 684 01:00:33,509 --> 01:00:36,136 - What are you putting up? You're putting up words. - "Words." 685 01:00:36,220 --> 01:00:39,431 While you've been dicking around some fucking company golf tournaments, 686 01:00:39,515 --> 01:00:42,392 I've been out in the world givin' my word... 687 01:00:42,476 --> 01:00:44,978 and backing it up with action. 688 01:00:49,149 --> 01:00:51,777 Now, are you gonna go and do this thing or not? 689 01:00:54,530 --> 01:00:56,823 I said I'd call the kids before they went to bed. 690 01:00:56,907 --> 01:00:59,618 [Japanese ] 691 01:01:09,837 --> 01:01:13,799 [Bergman] Stringer was supposed to be shooting B-roll on street cops in New Orleans. 692 01:01:13,882 --> 01:01:17,219 - What's with all the horses? -[Man]Camera guy's got a thing about mounted police. 693 01:01:17,344 --> 01:01:20,889 Don't any of these guys ride in cars? Walk? 694 01:01:20,931 --> 01:01:23,225 - How long are these things? - What was he saying? 695 01:01:23,267 --> 01:01:25,769 Hello. Yes, I'm trying to reach Mr. Richard Scruggs. 696 01:01:25,811 --> 01:01:28,272 This is Richard Scruggs. 697 01:01:28,313 --> 01:01:30,274 Can you hold on a second, please? 698 01:01:30,315 --> 01:01:32,651 Lowell, got him on the phone. 699 01:01:36,029 --> 01:01:39,074 - Hello, I'm Lowell Bergman. - Hold on. 700 01:01:39,157 --> 01:01:42,911 Mobile Approach, this is Leo-November-643. Over. 701 01:01:42,995 --> 01:01:45,497 [Radio: lndistinct] 702 01:01:45,581 --> 01:01:47,583 Request a flight level of220... 703 01:01:47,666 --> 01:01:50,252 on a heading of284 degrees. Over. 704 01:01:52,087 --> 01:01:54,089 - Mr. Bergman? - Yes, I'm right here. 705 01:01:54,173 --> 01:01:56,884 - Could you call me back on a hard line? - All right. 706 01:01:56,967 --> 01:02:02,514 - Area code 21 2-555-01 99. - I'll call you then. 707 01:02:08,562 --> 01:02:11,315 [Bergman Muttering] What do we do with that? 708 01:02:11,398 --> 01:02:13,859 - I don't know. - [Phone Ringing] 709 01:02:13,942 --> 01:02:15,861 Richard Scruggs. 710 01:02:15,944 --> 01:02:19,156 You filed a lawsuit against tobacco on behalf of the state of Mississippi. 711 01:02:19,239 --> 01:02:21,158 - Did you not? - That's right. 712 01:02:21,241 --> 01:02:25,787 I'm working with someone now who's the former head of research at Brown &Williamson. 713 01:02:25,871 --> 01:02:28,457 Former corporate officer there. 714 01:02:28,540 --> 01:02:30,501 What's your interest in this, Mr. Bergman? 715 01:02:30,584 --> 01:02:32,878 Well, he may tape an interview with us, 716 01:02:32,961 --> 01:02:36,298 and we believe if his testimony showed up in a court record first, 717 01:02:36,340 --> 01:02:40,385 it would free him up from his confidentiality agreement and give him some protection. 718 01:02:40,469 --> 01:02:43,430 It could work. If it's public record, it's public record. 719 01:02:43,514 --> 01:02:45,807 Yeah, and he's gonna need legal representation. 720 01:02:45,891 --> 01:02:48,143 [ Chuckling ] He sure as hell will. 721 01:02:48,227 --> 01:02:50,979 Has he decided to go public? 722 01:02:51,021 --> 01:02:53,732 Because let me tell ya. We been doin' this for three years now, 723 01:02:53,815 --> 01:02:57,361 and we've worked with a lot of corporate cases involving whistle-blowers. 724 01:02:57,444 --> 01:03:00,697 So we know Big Tobacco will do everything in their power to stop him. 725 01:03:00,781 --> 01:03:03,825 So is your man truly committed? 726 01:03:03,909 --> 01:03:07,246 Well, actually, no-- Well, he's on the fence. That's the point. 727 01:03:09,957 --> 01:03:13,335 Well, we'd certainly be interested in making his acquaintance. 728 01:03:13,418 --> 01:03:15,921 But without knowing what he's gonna do-- 729 01:03:16,004 --> 01:03:19,341 Would you want him to call you, or you wanna call him? How do you wanna do it? 730 01:03:19,424 --> 01:03:22,302 It would be better if he called us. 731 01:03:22,386 --> 01:03:24,346 - Yeah. Okay. - All right? 732 01:03:24,429 --> 01:03:26,682 Okay. Thank you. Shit. 733 01:03:30,894 --> 01:03:33,438 We need cops on the streets. We don't need them on horses. 734 01:03:33,522 --> 01:03:35,399 - I don't know what he was thinking. - For God's sake. 735 01:03:35,482 --> 01:03:37,526 - This guy got a horse fetish? - All right, all right. 736 01:03:37,609 --> 01:03:39,778 Get me, uh-- Get me to New Orleans this afternoon. 737 01:03:39,862 --> 01:03:42,072 I'll shoot the fucking thing myself!. 738 01:03:43,532 --> 01:03:45,450 - Have a good one. -[Man] All right. 739 01:03:45,534 --> 01:03:47,911 [Man On Radio: lndistinct] 740 01:04:06,263 --> 01:04:08,223 [Girl] What are you cooking? 741 01:04:08,265 --> 01:04:12,144 - I'm cooking pasta primavera. - Oh, l love that stuff. 742 01:04:12,227 --> 01:04:15,689 [Beeping] 743 01:04:15,772 --> 01:04:17,733 I'm going to have to go downstairs. 744 01:04:22,112 --> 01:04:25,616 [Beeping Continues] 745 01:04:29,620 --> 01:04:32,414 [ Beeping Continues ] 746 01:04:35,667 --> 01:04:37,628 [Clicks Mouse, Beeping Stops] 747 01:04:49,681 --> 01:04:51,433 Jeffrey! 748 01:05:13,580 --> 01:05:15,624 Jeffrey! Jeffrey! 749 01:05:15,707 --> 01:05:19,002 Jeffrey! Jeffrey! 750 01:05:47,197 --> 01:05:51,159 - [Bergman] What happened? - Dispatcher received a call of shots fired in the area. 751 01:05:51,201 --> 01:05:55,873 Uniforms arrived on the scene, found this white male subject shot to death. 752 01:05:55,956 --> 01:05:59,209 - Was it gang related? - There's no indication... 753 01:05:59,293 --> 01:06:04,173 - as far as a tag or an advertisement. -[Phone Ringing] 754 01:06:04,214 --> 01:06:06,758 -[Phone Beeps] - Yeah. 755 01:06:08,218 --> 01:06:10,929 They're terrorizing us. Death threats. My family, my kids. 756 01:06:11,013 --> 01:06:12,931 Whoa. What are you talking about? 757 01:06:13,015 --> 01:06:16,476 - Someone put a bullet in my mailbox. -Jeff, call the F.B.I. 758 01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:18,854 - Right away. - They do this with impunity. 759 01:06:18,896 --> 01:06:21,398 -Jeff-- - They get to go home at night. 760 01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,109 What does it cost these people to do this to us? Nothing! 761 01:06:26,153 --> 01:06:28,697 My girls are crying. So fuck them. 762 01:06:28,780 --> 01:06:30,866 - I wanna tape. I'm done-- - I heard you. 763 01:06:30,949 --> 01:06:33,452 I gotta arrange for a legal defense first. 764 01:06:33,535 --> 01:06:36,622 I gotta get you to testify in court, get it on public record. 765 01:06:36,705 --> 01:06:39,499 Then hold it off the air until you got that, but I wanna go to New York, 766 01:06:39,583 --> 01:06:42,878 and I wanna go on the record... right now. 767 01:06:42,961 --> 01:06:47,216 - Good. But, Jeff-- - I'll call them, Lowell. 768 01:06:48,467 --> 01:06:50,552 [Phone Beeps] 769 01:06:51,637 --> 01:06:55,432 Did you handle the round, Mr. Wigand? 770 01:06:55,516 --> 01:06:57,434 Yes, I'm afraid I did. 771 01:06:57,518 --> 01:07:00,103 We won't be able to lift usable prints. 772 01:07:02,064 --> 01:07:04,608 Do you own a gun, Mr. Wigand? 773 01:07:05,817 --> 01:07:08,403 - A gun? Yes. - What caliber is your gun? 774 01:07:09,863 --> 01:07:11,782 What caliber is my gun? 775 01:07:11,865 --> 01:07:14,785 Yes, sir. What caliber is your gun? 776 01:07:14,868 --> 01:07:17,746 What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? 777 01:07:17,788 --> 01:07:20,624 [ Crying ] 778 01:07:20,707 --> 01:07:24,419 You think I put the bullet in the mailbox myself? 779 01:07:24,503 --> 01:07:27,089 If we could take a look, Mr. Wigand. 780 01:07:40,310 --> 01:07:42,271 Why do you keep this gun? 781 01:07:42,312 --> 01:07:45,816 I don't think it's unconstitutional yet to own a gun. I'm a target shooter. 782 01:07:45,899 --> 01:07:48,986 That bullet was for a .38 caliber. Do you own a .38? 783 01:07:49,069 --> 01:07:52,114 Yes, l do. A .38 Target Master in my gun safe downstairs. 784 01:07:52,155 --> 01:07:55,284 A .45 Gold Cup, a .22 target pistol. So what? 785 01:07:56,702 --> 01:08:00,330 Do you have a history of emotional problems, Mr. Wigand? 786 01:08:00,414 --> 01:08:02,457 Yeah. Yes, I do. 787 01:08:02,541 --> 01:08:06,295 Yes, I get extremely emotional when assholes put bullets in my mailbox. 788 01:08:06,336 --> 01:08:10,465 I didn't tell you that so you could pick it up and take it away. 789 01:08:10,507 --> 01:08:13,051 -Jeffrey! - What's going on? 790 01:08:13,135 --> 01:08:15,053 I told them you had an e-mail death threat that told you... 791 01:08:15,137 --> 01:08:17,055 if you didn't shut the " F" up, they were gonna kill you. 792 01:08:17,139 --> 01:08:20,559 You can't take that. It's personal property. My personal correspondence, 793 01:08:20,642 --> 01:08:23,353 - Ietters to my brother, my will. - [ Engine Starting ] 794 01:08:28,901 --> 01:08:31,486 [ Coughing ] 795 01:08:34,907 --> 01:08:36,825 You all right? 796 01:08:42,664 --> 01:08:44,583 [Dog Barking] 797 01:08:46,210 --> 01:08:48,170 That computer has every single-- 798 01:08:49,505 --> 01:08:51,465 [Agent] You all right, Mr. Wigand? 799 01:08:51,590 --> 01:08:54,510 We need to take a look at your gun safe, Mr. Wigand. 800 01:09:11,568 --> 01:09:15,531 I'm telling you... your agents in that office are acting improperly. 801 01:09:15,614 --> 01:09:17,574 Now who are they trying to protect? 802 01:09:17,616 --> 01:09:19,576 Let me ,tell you something, Lowell. Look, look. 803 01:09:19,618 --> 01:09:21,870 You're talking about two agents in a regional office in Louisville. 804 01:09:21,954 --> 01:09:25,165 I got the goddamned Unabomber threatening to blow up L.A.X. 805 01:09:25,249 --> 01:09:29,503 I gotta move 45 agents from all over the country into L.A. 806 01:09:29,586 --> 01:09:31,505 All right? When I get a chance, I'll give it a look. 807 01:09:31,588 --> 01:09:34,383 [ Bergman ] You better take a good look because I'm getting two things: 808 01:09:34,466 --> 01:09:36,677 pissed off and curious! 809 01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:41,557 Now, any of these guys been offered jobs in corporate security after they retire? 810 01:09:41,598 --> 01:09:44,935 Either one of those guys got ex-agent pals already in those jobs? 811 01:09:45,018 --> 01:09:48,272 Like, for instance, their ex-supervisor who's already at Brown &Williamson... 812 01:09:48,355 --> 01:09:50,399 as we fuckin' speak! 813 01:09:50,482 --> 01:09:52,442 - I'll give it a look. - You're getting my drift? 814 01:09:52,484 --> 01:09:54,444 I'll give it a look. 815 01:09:55,904 --> 01:09:58,240 [ Bergman ] So is everything okay? 816 01:09:59,867 --> 01:10:02,744 - How are the rooms? Comfortable? - Yes, very. 817 01:10:02,786 --> 01:10:05,914 Do you know, I enjoy your work so much. 818 01:10:05,998 --> 01:10:09,543 When you're talkin' to somebody, I always feel like I'm right there. 819 01:10:09,626 --> 01:10:11,920 [ Chuckling ] Thank you for saying that. 820 01:10:11,962 --> 01:10:14,131 Do you think we could talk about the taping? 821 01:10:14,214 --> 01:10:18,635 Tomorrow's taping? Just so we can get it out of the way and order. 822 01:10:18,719 --> 01:10:23,765 Yeah, well, questions will go towards what work you did there, why you were fired and other-- 823 01:10:23,849 --> 01:10:26,435 Taping? 824 01:10:30,063 --> 01:10:34,151 - What are you taping? - I'm doin' an interview. 825 01:10:36,987 --> 01:10:39,281 An interview? 826 01:10:44,536 --> 01:10:47,497 Do you know what they will do to us? 827 01:10:47,539 --> 01:10:49,499 I thought we-- 828 01:10:53,504 --> 01:10:55,464 I'm sorry. 829 01:10:55,506 --> 01:10:57,466 Liane, this is a preliminary-- 830 01:11:06,850 --> 01:11:09,937 You didn't tell her we were taping? 831 01:11:10,020 --> 01:11:13,774 What did she think she was coming to New York for? 832 01:11:13,857 --> 01:11:17,277 Talk about it, think about it. I had a plan to, uh, ease her into it, 833 01:11:17,361 --> 01:11:20,155 but I really-- I don't know how to do that. 834 01:11:25,869 --> 01:11:28,455 Oh, man. 835 01:11:32,584 --> 01:11:34,545 Who are these people? 836 01:11:37,339 --> 01:11:40,509 Ordinary people under extraordinary pressure, Mike. 837 01:11:42,302 --> 01:11:45,180 What the hell you expect, grace and consistency? 838 01:12:10,372 --> 01:12:13,542 [ Crew Chattering ] 839 01:12:13,625 --> 01:12:17,504 [Stage Manager] Five, four, three, two-- 840 01:12:19,047 --> 01:12:21,258 [ Wallace ] You heard Mr. Sandefur say... 841 01:12:21,341 --> 01:12:25,929 before Congress that he believed nicotine was not addictive. 842 01:12:26,013 --> 01:12:29,016 I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself... 843 01:12:29,099 --> 01:12:31,018 because I watched those testimonies very carefully. 844 01:12:31,101 --> 01:12:35,272 [Wallace] All of us did. I mean, there was this whole line of people, 845 01:12:35,355 --> 01:12:37,900 whole line of C.E.O.'s up there swearing. 846 01:12:37,941 --> 01:12:42,029 Part of the reason I'm here is that l felt... 847 01:12:42,112 --> 01:12:44,489 that their representation clearly misstated-- 848 01:12:44,573 --> 01:12:46,491 at least within Brown &Williamson's representation-- 849 01:12:46,575 --> 01:12:50,913 clearly misstated what is common language within the company. 850 01:12:50,954 --> 01:12:53,373 We are in the nicotine delivery business. 851 01:12:53,457 --> 01:12:55,542 And that's what cigarettes are for. 852 01:12:55,626 --> 01:12:57,878 Delivery device for nicotine. 853 01:12:57,961 --> 01:12:59,880 A delivery device for nicotine. 854 01:12:59,963 --> 01:13:02,758 Put it in your mouth, light it up and you're going to get your fix. 855 01:13:02,799 --> 01:13:07,262 - You're gonna get your fix. - You're saying that Brown &Williamson... 856 01:13:07,304 --> 01:13:10,432 manipulates and adjusts the nicotine fix... 857 01:13:10,516 --> 01:13:12,476 not by artificially adding nicotine, 858 01:13:12,518 --> 01:13:15,562 but by enhancing the effect of nicotine... 859 01:13:15,646 --> 01:13:20,067 through the use of chemical elements such as ammonia. 860 01:13:20,150 --> 01:13:22,819 The process is known as impact boosting. 861 01:13:22,903 --> 01:13:25,614 While not spiking nicotine, 862 01:13:25,656 --> 01:13:28,617 they clearly manipulate it. 863 01:13:28,659 --> 01:13:33,080 There is extensive use of this technology, known as ammonia chemistry. 864 01:13:33,163 --> 01:13:36,708 It allows for the nicotine to be more rapidly absorbed in the lung... 865 01:13:36,792 --> 01:13:39,461 and therefore affect the brain and central nervous system. 866 01:13:43,715 --> 01:13:47,344 The straw that broke the camel's back for me and really put me in trouble with Sandefur... 867 01:13:47,427 --> 01:13:50,097 was a compound called coumarin. 868 01:13:50,180 --> 01:13:52,099 When I came on board at B&, 869 01:13:52,182 --> 01:13:56,895 they had tried to transition from coumarin to a similar flavor... 870 01:13:56,979 --> 01:14:00,607 that would give the same taste and had been unsuccessful. 871 01:14:00,691 --> 01:14:04,319 I wanted it out immediately. I was told... 872 01:14:04,361 --> 01:14:08,407 that it would effect sales, so I should mind my own business. 873 01:14:08,490 --> 01:14:11,535 I constructed a memo to Mr. Sandefur indicating I could not in conscience... 874 01:14:11,618 --> 01:14:14,329 continue with coumarin in a product that we now knew-- 875 01:14:14,413 --> 01:14:18,876 we had documentation-- was similar to coumadin, a lung-specific carcinogen. 876 01:14:18,959 --> 01:14:21,712 And you sent the document forward to Sandefur? 877 01:14:21,795 --> 01:14:23,714 I sent the document forward to Sandefur. 878 01:14:23,797 --> 01:14:27,176 I was told that we would continue to work on a substitute. 879 01:14:27,259 --> 01:14:31,054 We weren't going to remove it as it would impact sales and that that was his decision. 880 01:14:31,138 --> 01:14:33,807 [Wallace] ln other words, you are charging Sandefur... 881 01:14:33,891 --> 01:14:35,809 and Brown &Williamson... 882 01:14:35,893 --> 01:14:38,228 with ignoring health considerations consciously? 883 01:14:40,731 --> 01:14:43,525 - Most certainly. - And on March 24, 884 01:14:43,567 --> 01:14:47,279 Thomas Sandefur, C.E.O. of Brown &Williamson, 885 01:14:47,362 --> 01:14:49,698 had you fired. 886 01:14:51,325 --> 01:14:53,243 And the reason he gave you? 887 01:14:55,245 --> 01:14:57,456 Poor communication skills. 888 01:14:59,583 --> 01:15:03,212 And you wish you hadn't come forward? 889 01:15:03,253 --> 01:15:05,881 You wish you hadn't blown the whistle? 890 01:15:07,466 --> 01:15:09,927 Yeah, there are times I wish I hadn't done it. 891 01:15:11,803 --> 01:15:15,057 There are times I feel com-- compelled to do it. 892 01:15:17,017 --> 01:15:18,977 If you'd asked me... 893 01:15:19,061 --> 01:15:21,688 would I do it again, do I think it's worth it? 894 01:15:25,567 --> 01:15:27,611 Yeah, I think it's worth it. 895 01:15:45,796 --> 01:15:48,340 [ Chattering ] 896 01:15:58,433 --> 01:16:00,769 [ Chattering Subsides ] 897 01:16:00,811 --> 01:16:03,939 - Hi. - [ Students ] Hi. 898 01:16:04,022 --> 01:16:06,400 My name is Jeff Wigand. 899 01:16:08,944 --> 01:16:11,280 You can call me, uh, Mr. Wigand. 900 01:16:11,363 --> 01:16:13,282 You can call me Dr. Wigand. 901 01:16:13,365 --> 01:16:16,910 I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and endocrinology. 902 01:16:16,994 --> 01:16:19,746 You can call me Jeff. 903 01:16:21,498 --> 01:16:24,251 Anything else you want to call me, you'll have to do so in private. 904 01:16:24,293 --> 01:16:28,088 - [ Laughter] - Um, okay. 905 01:16:28,130 --> 01:16:30,382 I find chemistry to be magical. 906 01:16:30,465 --> 01:16:32,593 I find it an adventure. 907 01:16:32,676 --> 01:16:37,055 An exploration into the building blocks of our physical universe. 908 01:16:37,139 --> 01:16:39,600 So how many of you have taken chemistry before? 909 01:16:42,644 --> 01:16:45,606 Okay. I've never taught it before, so we're gonna be fine. 910 01:16:45,689 --> 01:16:48,442 Our first experiment is gonna be measuring... 911 01:16:48,525 --> 01:16:50,569 the molecular weight of butane. 912 01:16:52,613 --> 01:16:55,240 He's on line three. 913 01:16:55,324 --> 01:16:58,577 [ Students Chattering ] 914 01:16:58,660 --> 01:17:02,456 - Hello? - Mr. Scruggs? Jeff Wigand. 915 01:17:02,497 --> 01:17:04,625 Lowell Bergman said I should give you a call. 916 01:17:04,666 --> 01:17:07,169 My co-counsel, Ron Motley and l, 917 01:17:07,252 --> 01:17:10,672 have filed a lawsuit against the tobacco industry on behalf of the state of Mississippi... 918 01:17:10,714 --> 01:17:13,258 to get the state reimbursed Medicaid costs... 919 01:17:13,342 --> 01:17:15,928 for treatin' people with smoking-related illness. 920 01:17:17,137 --> 01:17:19,139 If you'd be interested in talkin' to us, 921 01:17:19,223 --> 01:17:21,600 we'd certainly like to talk to you. 922 01:17:23,519 --> 01:17:25,354 When should we do this? 923 01:17:49,086 --> 01:17:51,547 Who the hell are you? What are you doing in my house? 924 01:17:51,630 --> 01:17:54,174 - It's okay, Jeff. It's okay. - Mr. Wigand, you need to speak to-- 925 01:17:54,258 --> 01:17:58,554 You've got your own security now. 926 01:18:00,848 --> 01:18:03,100 You know, Lowell, I can't-- I can't afford to-- 927 01:18:03,183 --> 01:18:07,354 No, they volunteered. A friend owns a large security company. 928 01:18:07,396 --> 01:18:10,524 How're you doing, Mr. Wigand? I'm John Telafarro. 929 01:18:10,566 --> 01:18:13,485 There'll be three of us on the detail. 930 01:18:13,569 --> 01:18:17,573 I'm going to the store. Please explain our new house guests to your children. 931 01:18:19,366 --> 01:18:22,744 - Mrs. Wigand's leaving the house. - [Door Opens, Closes] 932 01:18:25,914 --> 01:18:29,710 Uh, I called Richard Scruggs in Mississippi. 933 01:18:29,751 --> 01:18:34,214 - I heard. - I'm gonna be a witness for them in their litigation. 934 01:18:34,298 --> 01:18:36,258 [Beeping] 935 01:18:36,300 --> 01:18:38,844 So I'm gonna fly to Pascagoula, give a deposition. 936 01:18:38,927 --> 01:18:41,096 I know. I'm gonna go there tonight. 937 01:18:43,015 --> 01:18:45,726 [Wigand] You all right? 938 01:18:45,809 --> 01:18:48,353 - Did you have a good day? - Yes, I did. I had a great day. 939 01:18:48,437 --> 01:18:51,023 - Uh, coffee, Lowell? - Yeah, all right. 940 01:18:51,106 --> 01:18:53,442 Wanna play that game we were playing before? 941 01:18:53,483 --> 01:18:56,320 You know, I think you got it up to five. 942 01:18:56,403 --> 01:18:58,780 I was ahead of you, and then you just-- 943 01:19:19,218 --> 01:19:22,930 -[Water Running] - Please don't wash your hands in the sink. 944 01:19:22,971 --> 01:19:26,058 Where should I wash them? 945 01:19:26,141 --> 01:19:28,602 Use the bathroom. 946 01:19:28,644 --> 01:19:30,604 What's the difference? 947 01:19:30,646 --> 01:19:32,606 That's for food. 948 01:19:36,527 --> 01:19:38,487 [Turns Off Water] 949 01:19:46,078 --> 01:19:49,164 Leave it on. Just leave it on! Okay? 950 01:20:46,388 --> 01:20:48,640 I don't think I can do this. 951 01:20:54,855 --> 01:20:57,149 I want to stand by my husband. 952 01:20:57,232 --> 01:20:59,568 I really do, Jeffrey, but... 953 01:21:01,445 --> 01:21:03,864 I don't think I can do this anymore. 954 01:21:07,159 --> 01:21:09,077 I am so sorry. 955 01:21:28,597 --> 01:21:31,433 Can we talk about this when I get back? 956 01:21:36,939 --> 01:21:38,899 Yes, Jeffrey. 957 01:22:34,872 --> 01:22:37,833 - [ Telafarro ] It's okay. - [Man On P.A.: indistinct] 958 01:22:50,554 --> 01:22:52,556 Jeff!. 959 01:22:56,268 --> 01:22:58,228 You've been served. 960 01:23:10,741 --> 01:23:13,410 Now, what this one is is a temporary restraining order, 961 01:23:13,493 --> 01:23:16,955 a gag order, issued by a Kentucky court. 962 01:23:17,039 --> 01:23:19,625 Jeff Wigand, Michael Moore. 963 01:23:19,708 --> 01:23:21,627 Good to meet you, Dr. Wigand. 964 01:23:21,710 --> 01:23:23,712 Mike's our attorney general down here. 965 01:23:23,754 --> 01:23:26,006 I was just explaining to Jeff they got a Kentucky court... 966 01:23:26,089 --> 01:23:28,926 to issue a gag order to stop his deposition today. 967 01:23:29,009 --> 01:23:31,136 - Right. - Now, 968 01:23:31,220 --> 01:23:33,597 they tried to get the Mississippi court to honor it, 969 01:23:33,639 --> 01:23:35,599 but the judge threw it out. 970 01:23:35,641 --> 01:23:40,437 However, for you, there is a more perilous effect of the gag order. 971 01:23:40,521 --> 01:23:44,566 Dr. Wigand, you do understand what can happen, don't you? 972 01:23:47,319 --> 01:23:51,573 I'm not free to testify... here. 973 01:23:51,615 --> 01:23:54,451 That's right. If you violate the Kentucky order, 974 01:23:54,493 --> 01:23:56,662 when you step foot back in Kentucky... 975 01:23:56,745 --> 01:23:59,706 they can find you in contempt and they can incarcerate you. 976 01:23:59,790 --> 01:24:01,708 And you ought to know that. 977 01:24:05,337 --> 01:24:07,631 -Jail. - Possibly, yes. 978 01:24:07,714 --> 01:24:10,759 That is one of the possible consequences of your testifying here today. 979 01:24:10,801 --> 01:24:12,761 That's right. 980 01:24:17,850 --> 01:24:21,395 How does-- How does one go to jail? 981 01:24:21,478 --> 01:24:25,148 Wh-What does my family do? 982 01:24:25,190 --> 01:24:27,568 Go on welfare? 983 01:24:27,651 --> 01:24:30,904 If my wife has to work, who's gonna look after the kids? 984 01:24:30,988 --> 01:24:33,448 Put food on the table? I mean, my children need me. 985 01:24:33,532 --> 01:24:35,784 If l'm not teaching, there's no medical. 986 01:24:35,826 --> 01:24:39,746 No medical, even on co-pay, that's like-- Tuition-- 987 01:24:39,830 --> 01:24:42,708 Dr. Wigand, listen. 988 01:24:42,791 --> 01:24:45,210 You may not be able to do this thing. 989 01:24:45,294 --> 01:24:48,005 As I understand from Dick, you're our key witness, 990 01:24:48,088 --> 01:24:51,508 and I hope you don't withdraw. 991 01:24:51,592 --> 01:24:54,094 Um, I guess we'd all understand if you did. 992 01:24:55,387 --> 01:24:57,472 Guys, I gotta go. I'm gonna be late for court. 993 01:24:57,556 --> 01:25:00,934 I'll see y'all later. Dr. Wigand, good luck. 994 01:25:05,856 --> 01:25:10,777 [Door Slides Open, Closes] 995 01:25:10,861 --> 01:25:13,322 I know what you're facing, Jeff. 996 01:25:13,405 --> 01:25:15,365 And I think I know how you're feeling. 997 01:25:17,242 --> 01:25:21,538 In the navy, I flew A-6's off carriers. 998 01:25:21,622 --> 01:25:25,083 In combat, events have a duration of seconds. 999 01:25:25,167 --> 01:25:27,503 Sometimes minutes. 1000 01:25:27,544 --> 01:25:30,422 But what you're going through goes on day in, day out, 1001 01:25:30,506 --> 01:25:32,674 whether you're ready for it or not. 1002 01:25:32,716 --> 01:25:34,676 Week in, week out. 1003 01:25:34,718 --> 01:25:37,387 Month after month after month. 1004 01:25:37,471 --> 01:25:41,016 Whether you're up or whether you're down. 1005 01:25:41,058 --> 01:25:44,019 You're assaulted psychologically. 1006 01:25:44,061 --> 01:25:46,396 You're assaulted financially, 1007 01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:51,151 which is its own special kind of violence because it's directed at your kids. 1008 01:25:51,235 --> 01:25:53,570 What school can you afford? 1009 01:25:53,612 --> 01:25:56,114 How will that affect their lives? 1010 01:25:56,198 --> 01:25:58,116 You're asking yourself, 1011 01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:01,495 "Will that limit what they may become?" 1012 01:26:01,578 --> 01:26:04,248 You feel your whole family's future is compromised, 1013 01:26:04,331 --> 01:26:06,875 held hostage. 1014 01:26:06,959 --> 01:26:09,086 I do know how it is. 1015 01:26:23,559 --> 01:26:25,477 You attract a crowd. 1016 01:26:25,561 --> 01:26:27,479 Yeah. Great. 1017 01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:32,484 I heard about the Kentucky gag order. 1018 01:26:36,154 --> 01:26:38,615 I don't know what to do. 1019 01:27:15,652 --> 01:27:17,863 [ Reporters Chattering ] 1020 01:27:20,741 --> 01:27:23,160 [ Reporters Shouting Questions ] 1021 01:27:33,754 --> 01:27:37,174 [ Crowd Chattering, Laughing ] 1022 01:27:41,011 --> 01:27:44,306 Hold on a second. 1023 01:27:44,389 --> 01:27:48,477 Would you please ask Mr. Motley if he expects his witness to appear or not? 1024 01:27:52,231 --> 01:27:54,483 [Man On Police Radio: lndistinct] 1025 01:28:16,213 --> 01:28:19,091 I can't seem to find the criteria to decide. 1026 01:28:21,093 --> 01:28:24,388 It's too big a decision to make without being resolved in my own mind. 1027 01:28:26,723 --> 01:28:29,726 Maybe things have changed. 1028 01:28:50,914 --> 01:28:52,875 A lot's changed. 1029 01:28:58,130 --> 01:29:00,090 You mean since this morning? 1030 01:29:02,426 --> 01:29:05,637 No, I mean since whenever. 1031 01:29:11,852 --> 01:29:14,271 Fuck it. 1032 01:29:14,313 --> 01:29:16,481 Let's go to court. 1033 01:29:16,565 --> 01:29:19,234 [Scruggs] Dr. Wigand would like to leave now. 1034 01:29:19,318 --> 01:29:21,904 - [ Officers Chattering ] - [ Engines Starting ] 1035 01:30:56,164 --> 01:30:58,083 [ No Audio ] 1036 01:31:08,093 --> 01:31:11,555 [ Reporters Shouting Questions ] 1037 01:31:26,570 --> 01:31:29,031 [ Chattering ] 1038 01:31:32,868 --> 01:31:35,871 [ Chattering Subsides ] 1039 01:31:43,921 --> 01:31:46,340 Okay, Jeff. I'm gonna sit you down at that table over there. 1040 01:31:46,423 --> 01:31:48,342 I want to start as fast as possible. 1041 01:31:48,425 --> 01:31:50,802 I don't want to give them a chance to get another restraining order. Okay? 1042 01:31:50,886 --> 01:31:52,804 - Let's go. - Good luck, Doc. 1043 01:32:01,063 --> 01:32:04,733 Please stand. Raise your right hand. 1044 01:32:04,775 --> 01:32:08,904 Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 1045 01:32:08,987 --> 01:32:12,157 -[Wigand] l do. -[Stenographer] You may be seated. 1046 01:32:12,241 --> 01:32:15,035 You understand, Dr. Wigand, you are under oath? 1047 01:32:15,118 --> 01:32:19,122 This is a sworn deposition. There's no judge. It's not a trial. 1048 01:32:19,206 --> 01:32:22,376 Will you state your name for the record? 1049 01:32:22,459 --> 01:32:25,921 Jeffrey S. Wigand. R-E-Y. W-l-G-A-N-D. 1050 01:32:29,424 --> 01:32:31,885 Got any idea what's going on in there? 1051 01:32:31,927 --> 01:32:33,887 No, I don't have a clue. 1052 01:32:36,098 --> 01:32:38,559 - That is correct. - In other words, it acts as a drug, 1053 01:32:38,642 --> 01:32:40,894 - Object to the form of the question. - It acts as a drug-- 1054 01:32:40,978 --> 01:32:42,813 - Object to the form-- - It acts as a drug-- 1055 01:32:42,896 --> 01:32:44,982 - Object! - Is there an echo in here? 1056 01:32:45,065 --> 01:32:47,067 Your objection's been recorded. 1057 01:32:47,150 --> 01:32:50,320 She typed it into her little machine ower there. It's on there cord. 1058 01:32:50,404 --> 01:32:54,867 So now l'll proceed with my deposition of my witness. 1059 01:32:56,785 --> 01:33:00,080 - Does it act as a drug? - Dr. Wigand! 1060 01:33:00,163 --> 01:33:02,708 I am instructing you... 1061 01:33:02,749 --> 01:33:05,169 not to answer that question. 1062 01:33:05,252 --> 01:33:08,881 In accordance to the terms of the contractual obligations... 1063 01:33:08,922 --> 01:33:11,466 under taken by you... 1064 01:33:11,550 --> 01:33:14,595 not to disclose any information... 1065 01:33:14,678 --> 01:33:18,390 about your work at the Brown &Williamson Tobacco Company. 1066 01:33:18,432 --> 01:33:21,685 And in accordance with the force and effect... 1067 01:33:21,768 --> 01:33:23,854 of the temporary restraining order... 1068 01:33:23,937 --> 01:33:26,064 that has been entered against you... 1069 01:33:26,148 --> 01:33:30,027 by the court in the state of Kentucky. 1070 01:33:30,110 --> 01:33:32,738 That means you don't talk. 1071 01:33:32,821 --> 01:33:34,865 Mr. Motley, we have rights here. 1072 01:33:34,948 --> 01:33:37,242 Oh, you've got rights. 1073 01:33:37,284 --> 01:33:41,288 And lefts. Ups and downs and middles. 1074 01:33:41,371 --> 01:33:46,084 So what? You don't get to instruct anything around here! 1075 01:33:46,126 --> 01:33:50,464 This is not North Carolina, not South Carolina, nor Kentucky. 1076 01:33:50,506 --> 01:33:53,926 This is the sovereign state of Mississippi's proceeding. 1077 01:33:53,967 --> 01:33:56,803 Wipe that smirk off your face! 1078 01:33:56,887 --> 01:34:00,807 Dr. Wigand's deposition will be part of this record! 1079 01:34:00,849 --> 01:34:04,895 And I'm gonna take my witness' testimony whether the hell you like it or not! 1080 01:34:18,951 --> 01:34:20,869 Answer the question, Doctor. 1081 01:34:20,953 --> 01:34:26,124 Yes. It produces a physiological response, which meets the definition of a drug. 1082 01:34:26,208 --> 01:34:29,461 Um, nicotine is associated with... 1083 01:34:29,503 --> 01:34:31,964 impact, satisfaction. 1084 01:34:32,005 --> 01:34:36,593 It has a pharmacological effect that crosses the blood-brain barrier intact. 1085 01:34:39,513 --> 01:34:42,391 [Motley] Thank you, Doctor. Thank you. 1086 01:34:55,195 --> 01:34:58,574 ##[Vocalizing] 1087 01:35:26,226 --> 01:35:28,687 One of the reasons I'm here is that I felt... 1088 01:35:28,729 --> 01:35:32,024 that their representation clearly-- 1089 01:35:34,234 --> 01:35:38,405 Run that Sandefur piece on "nicotine's not addictive." 1090 01:35:38,488 --> 01:35:42,075 Run that on camera, then cut right to Wigand with "l believe they perjured--" 1091 01:35:42,159 --> 01:35:44,995 Then go wide to the C.E.O.s all taking the oath. 1092 01:35:45,078 --> 01:35:47,998 Then back on Jeff... 1093 01:35:48,081 --> 01:35:50,667 and play the pause after the word "felt" on the B-side. 1094 01:35:50,751 --> 01:35:54,046 Hell of a show, Mike. Explosive material. 1095 01:35:56,131 --> 01:35:58,884 - It went great in Mississippi, Mike. - Good. 1096 01:36:00,135 --> 01:36:02,221 -I heard Wigand's deposition got sealed. -Yeah. 1097 01:36:02,262 --> 01:36:05,599 They argued that he was going to reveal the secret formula of Kools to the world. 1098 01:36:05,682 --> 01:36:08,185 [ Laughing ] 1099 01:36:08,268 --> 01:36:10,729 [Bergman] Sealeddoesn'thurtScruggs'litigation, 1100 01:36:10,771 --> 01:36:14,399 and since we're the only ones with the story, l believe we're sitting on an exclusive. 1101 01:36:14,441 --> 01:36:16,860 - I like that. - [Hewitt] Corporate has some questions. 1102 01:36:16,944 --> 01:36:19,279 We've got a meeting at "Black Rock " first thing in the morning. 1103 01:36:19,363 --> 01:36:23,408 - When's the air date? - Lowell, Sharon's online three. 1104 01:36:23,450 --> 01:36:27,579 - Tell her I'll call her back in ten. - [Editor]Here we go. 1105 01:36:27,621 --> 01:36:30,123 [ Wallace On TV] That they had long known that the nicotine in tobacco... 1106 01:36:30,165 --> 01:36:34,461 is an addictive drug despite their public statements to the contrary. 1107 01:36:34,545 --> 01:36:38,298 Like the testimony before Congress of Dr. Wigand's former boss, 1108 01:36:38,382 --> 01:36:42,344 Brown &Williamson's chief executive officer, Thomas Sandefur. 1109 01:36:42,427 --> 01:36:44,930 I believe that nicotine is not addictive. 1110 01:36:45,013 --> 01:36:47,599 I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself... 1111 01:36:47,641 --> 01:36:50,143 because I watched those testimonies very carefully. 1112 01:36:50,185 --> 01:36:53,689 [ Wallace ] All of us did. There was this whole line of people, 1113 01:36:53,772 --> 01:36:56,191 whole line of C.E.O.'s up there all swearing. 1114 01:36:56,275 --> 01:36:58,944 [ Wigand ] Part of the reason I'm here is that I felt... 1115 01:37:00,153 --> 01:37:02,239 that their representation clearly misstated... 1116 01:37:02,322 --> 01:37:04,575 what is common language within the company. 1117 01:37:04,658 --> 01:37:06,910 We are in the nicotine delivery business. 1118 01:37:06,994 --> 01:37:10,497 There is extensive use of this technology, known as ammonia chemistry. 1119 01:37:10,581 --> 01:37:14,501 It allows for the nicotine to be more rapidly absorbed in the lung... 1120 01:37:14,543 --> 01:37:17,212 and therefore affect the brain and central nervous system. 1121 01:37:17,296 --> 01:37:20,340 - [ Wallace ] That's what cigarettes are for. - Delivery device for nicotine. 1122 01:37:20,424 --> 01:37:23,302 [ Wallace ] A delivery device for nicotine. Put it in your mouth, 1123 01:37:23,343 --> 01:37:25,470 Iight it up and you're going to get your fix. 1124 01:37:25,512 --> 01:37:27,848 You're going to get your fix. 1125 01:37:27,931 --> 01:37:30,976 ##[Vocalizing] 1126 01:39:05,779 --> 01:39:08,574 [Dog Barking] 1127 01:40:31,990 --> 01:40:34,952 - Shall I send for coffee? Sorry I'm late. - [ Wallace ] No, we're fine. 1128 01:40:35,035 --> 01:40:37,829 - Are you sure? - [ Bergman ] Yeah. 1129 01:40:37,913 --> 01:40:40,207 All right. I thought we'd get together... 1130 01:40:40,249 --> 01:40:42,209 because there's a legal concept... 1131 01:40:42,251 --> 01:40:44,962 that has been getting some new attention recently. 1132 01:40:45,045 --> 01:40:47,130 Tortious interference. 1133 01:40:47,214 --> 01:40:51,009 If two people have an agreement, like a confidentiality agreement, 1134 01:40:51,093 --> 01:40:55,556 and one of them breaks it because they are induced to do so by a third party, 1135 01:40:55,597 --> 01:40:58,725 the third party can be sued for damages for interfering. 1136 01:40:58,767 --> 01:41:00,978 Hence, tortious interference. 1137 01:41:01,061 --> 01:41:04,189 "lnterfering"? That's what we do. 1138 01:41:04,273 --> 01:41:06,984 I think what we're trying to tell you is that it happens all the time. 1139 01:41:07,067 --> 01:41:11,071 This is a news organization. People are always telling us things they shouldn't. 1140 01:41:11,154 --> 01:41:15,409 We have to verify if it's true and in the public interest. And if it is, we air it. 1141 01:41:15,450 --> 01:41:19,788 And after we corroborate it. That's why we've never lost a lawsuit and run a classy show. 1142 01:41:19,872 --> 01:41:24,668 - Anything else? - And 60 Minutes' verification is exact and precise. 1143 01:41:24,751 --> 01:41:28,630 And I don't think it would hurt to make sure you're right on this one. 1144 01:41:28,714 --> 01:41:32,634 [Hewitt] Why? You think we have liability? 1145 01:41:32,718 --> 01:41:34,803 What's the CBS News position, Eric? 1146 01:41:34,887 --> 01:41:37,055 There's a possibility. It's rather remote. 1147 01:41:37,139 --> 01:41:40,100 But one we have to check on, Mike. 1148 01:41:40,184 --> 01:41:42,769 I've retained outside counsel to do exactly that... 1149 01:41:42,853 --> 01:41:47,441 on a segment, I might add, that's already rife with problems. 1150 01:41:47,524 --> 01:41:49,484 What does that mean? " Rife with--" 1151 01:41:49,526 --> 01:41:52,779 I'm told unusual promises were made to Wigand. 1152 01:41:52,863 --> 01:41:55,949 No, only that we would hold his story until it was safe for him. 1153 01:41:56,033 --> 01:41:59,119 And I'm told there are questions as to our star witness' veracity. 1154 01:41:59,203 --> 01:42:02,206 His "veracity" was good enough for the state of Mississippi. 1155 01:42:02,289 --> 01:42:04,750 Our standards have to be higher than anyone else's, 1156 01:42:04,833 --> 01:42:07,794 because we are the standard for everybody else. 1157 01:42:07,878 --> 01:42:13,050 Well, as a "standard," I'll hang with "is this guy telling the truth?" 1158 01:42:13,133 --> 01:42:15,844 Well, with tortious interference, I'm afraid... 1159 01:42:15,928 --> 01:42:19,431 the greater the truth, the greater the damage. 1160 01:42:21,016 --> 01:42:23,435 - Come again? - They own... 1161 01:42:23,519 --> 01:42:26,063 the information he's disclosing. 1162 01:42:26,146 --> 01:42:28,190 The truer it is, 1163 01:42:28,273 --> 01:42:30,275 the greater the damage to them. 1164 01:42:30,359 --> 01:42:33,987 If he lied, he didn't disclose their information, and the damages are smaller. 1165 01:42:39,076 --> 01:42:43,914 - Is this Alice in Wonderland? - You said "on this one." 1166 01:42:43,997 --> 01:42:45,916 What about this one? 1167 01:42:45,999 --> 01:42:49,670 If this holds up-- And it very well may not, Mike. 1168 01:42:49,753 --> 01:42:53,048 But if it did and we aired this segment, 1169 01:42:53,131 --> 01:42:57,177 and CBS was sued by Brown &Williamson, 1170 01:42:57,219 --> 01:42:59,304 I think we could be at grave risk. 1171 01:42:59,388 --> 01:43:03,183 - How grave? - Well, at the end of the day, 1172 01:43:03,225 --> 01:43:05,936 because of your segment, 1173 01:43:06,019 --> 01:43:08,438 the Brown &Williamson Tobacco Company... 1174 01:43:08,522 --> 01:43:10,524 could own CBS. 1175 01:43:12,651 --> 01:43:15,571 - [Beeping] - Oh. You know, 1176 01:43:15,612 --> 01:43:19,575 I am sorry, but I'm due upstairs. 1177 01:43:19,658 --> 01:43:22,619 Is CBS Corporate telling CBS News... 1178 01:43:22,703 --> 01:43:26,206 " Do not go to air with this story"? 1179 01:43:26,248 --> 01:43:28,876 You're getting ahead of yourself. We're all in this together. 1180 01:43:28,959 --> 01:43:32,171 We're all CBS. We'll find out soon. 1181 01:43:32,254 --> 01:43:34,173 Thank you, gentlemen. 1182 01:43:41,221 --> 01:43:43,182 "Tortious interference." 1183 01:43:43,265 --> 01:43:46,310 That sounds like a disease caught by a radio. 1184 01:43:46,393 --> 01:43:48,812 -[Hewitt]Lunch? - Sure. 1185 01:43:48,896 --> 01:43:51,273 Don't worry. We call the shots around here. 1186 01:43:59,198 --> 01:44:01,116 [Dialing Phone] 1187 01:44:04,870 --> 01:44:07,247 - [ Ringing ] - Hello? 1188 01:44:07,289 --> 01:44:10,125 Debbie, it's me. I want you to check some filings, 1189 01:44:10,209 --> 01:44:12,711 and give me John Wilson's number at Bear-Stearn. 1190 01:44:20,969 --> 01:44:23,430 - [ Bergman ] What now? - Kluster's coming over. 1191 01:44:31,104 --> 01:44:33,065 [Man] Hello, Lowell, Mike. 1192 01:44:33,148 --> 01:44:35,484 -[Door Closes] - Don. 1193 01:44:35,567 --> 01:44:39,905 There has been so much soul searching about this Wigand. 1194 01:44:39,988 --> 01:44:43,408 I've decided we should cut an alternate version of the show without his interview. 1195 01:44:43,408 --> 01:44:44,201 I've decided we should cut an alternate version of the show without his interview. 1196 01:44:44,243 --> 01:44:48,914 So what happened to Ms. Caperelli's checking with outside counsel first? 1197 01:44:48,997 --> 01:44:50,916 - All that crap? - That's happening. 1198 01:44:50,999 --> 01:44:53,585 Hopefully, we won't have to use the alternate, but we should have it in the can. 1199 01:44:53,669 --> 01:44:56,004 - I'm not touching my film. - I'm afraid you are. 1200 01:44:56,088 --> 01:45:00,217 - No, I'm not. - We're doing this with or with out you, Lowell. 1201 01:45:00,300 --> 01:45:04,263 If you like, I can assign another producer to edit your show. 1202 01:45:06,765 --> 01:45:08,851 Since when has the, uh, 1203 01:45:08,934 --> 01:45:12,354 paragon of investigative journalism... 1204 01:45:12,396 --> 01:45:16,650 allowed lawyers to determine the news content on 60 Minutes? 1205 01:45:16,733 --> 01:45:19,069 [Hewitt] It's an alternate version. 1206 01:45:19,152 --> 01:45:21,822 So what if we have an alternate version? 1207 01:45:21,905 --> 01:45:24,533 And I don't think our being cautious is so damned unreasonable. 1208 01:45:25,868 --> 01:45:27,828 So now, if you will excuse me, gentlemen, 1209 01:45:27,870 --> 01:45:30,497 Mr. Rather's been complaining about his chair again. 1210 01:45:30,539 --> 01:45:33,375 Before you go, 1211 01:45:34,459 --> 01:45:36,420 I discovered this. 1212 01:45:38,380 --> 01:45:42,968 S.E.C. filing for the sale of CBS Corporation to Westinghouse Corporation. 1213 01:45:43,051 --> 01:45:45,304 - What? - Yeah, I heard rumors. 1214 01:45:45,387 --> 01:45:48,515 It's not a rumor. It's a sale. If Tisch can unload CBS... 1215 01:45:48,557 --> 01:45:50,893 for $81 a share to Westinghouse, 1216 01:45:50,976 --> 01:45:52,936 and then is suddenly threatened... 1217 01:45:53,020 --> 01:45:56,773 with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit from Brown &Williamson, 1218 01:45:56,857 --> 01:45:58,775 that could screw up the sale, could it not? 1219 01:45:58,859 --> 01:46:02,779 -[Kluster] What are you implying? - I'm not implying. I'm quoting. 1220 01:46:02,863 --> 01:46:06,742 Uh, " More vested interests. Persons who will profit from this merger. 1221 01:46:06,825 --> 01:46:12,039 " Ms. Helen Caperelli, general counsel of CBS News, 3.9 million. 1222 01:46:12,122 --> 01:46:15,209 " Mr. Eric Kluster, president of CBS News, 1223 01:46:15,250 --> 01:46:18,128 1 .4 million." 1224 01:46:18,212 --> 01:46:21,340 [Hewitt] Are you suggesting that she and Eric are influenced by money? 1225 01:46:21,423 --> 01:46:25,427 No, no, of course they're not influenced by money. They work for free. 1226 01:46:25,511 --> 01:46:27,930 And you are a volunteer executive producer. 1227 01:46:28,013 --> 01:46:31,934 CBS does not do that. And you're questioning our journalistic integrity. 1228 01:46:32,017 --> 01:46:33,936 No, I'm questioning your hearing. 1229 01:46:34,019 --> 01:46:36,313 You hear "reasonable" and "tortious interference." 1230 01:46:36,396 --> 01:46:39,566 I hear "potential Brown &Williamson lawsuit... 1231 01:46:39,650 --> 01:46:42,653 jeopardizing the sale of CBS to Westinghouse." 1232 01:46:42,736 --> 01:46:46,114 I hear "Shut the segment down. Cut Wigand loose. 1233 01:46:46,198 --> 01:46:48,992 Obey orders and fuck off." That's what I hear. 1234 01:46:49,076 --> 01:46:50,994 -[Hewitt] You're exaggerating. - I am? 1235 01:46:51,078 --> 01:46:53,872 You pay me to go get guys like Wigand, 1236 01:46:53,956 --> 01:46:57,793 to draw him out, to get him to trust us, to get him to go on television. 1237 01:46:57,835 --> 01:47:00,754 I do. I deliver him. He sits. He talks. 1238 01:47:00,796 --> 01:47:04,174 He violates his own fucking confidentiality agreement. 1239 01:47:04,258 --> 01:47:08,303 And he's only the key witness in the biggest public health reform issue, 1240 01:47:08,387 --> 01:47:10,472 maybe the biggest, most expensive... 1241 01:47:10,556 --> 01:47:13,475 corporate malfeasance case in U.S. history. 1242 01:47:13,559 --> 01:47:15,894 And Jeffrey Wigand, who's out on a limb, 1243 01:47:15,978 --> 01:47:18,313 does he go on television and tell the truth? 1244 01:47:18,397 --> 01:47:20,732 Yes. Is it newsworthy? 1245 01:47:20,816 --> 01:47:23,485 Yes. Are we gonna air it? 1246 01:47:23,569 --> 01:47:25,571 Of course not. Why? 1247 01:47:25,654 --> 01:47:27,906 Because he's not telling the truth? No. 1248 01:47:27,990 --> 01:47:31,827 Because he is telling the truth. That's why we're not gonna air it. 1249 01:47:31,869 --> 01:47:34,162 And the more truth he tells, the worse it gets. 1250 01:47:34,246 --> 01:47:38,166 [Hewitt] You are a fanatic, an anarchist. You know that? 1251 01:47:38,250 --> 01:47:41,795 If we can't have a whole show, then I want half a show rather than no show. 1252 01:47:41,837 --> 01:47:45,632 But, oh, no. Not you. You won't be satisfied unless you're putting the company at risk! 1253 01:47:45,674 --> 01:47:48,927 What are you? Are you a businessman or are you a newsman? 1254 01:47:49,011 --> 01:47:51,346 Because that happens to be what Mike and l... 1255 01:47:51,430 --> 01:47:54,057 and some other people around here do for a living. 1256 01:47:54,141 --> 01:47:57,728 - Lowell-- - Put the corporation at risk? Give me a fucking break! 1257 01:47:57,811 --> 01:47:59,980 These people are putting our whole reason... 1258 01:48:00,022 --> 01:48:02,691 - for doing what we do on the line! - Lowell! 1259 01:48:02,774 --> 01:48:04,818 What? 1260 01:48:04,860 --> 01:48:07,070 I'm with Don on this. 1261 01:48:24,338 --> 01:48:27,299 [Door Opens, Closes] 1262 01:48:29,551 --> 01:48:31,512 What's wrong? 1263 01:48:31,553 --> 01:48:34,139 They're killing the Wigand interview. 1264 01:48:34,223 --> 01:48:38,477 - What? - They're pretending it's process. That's bullshit. It's foregone. 1265 01:48:41,897 --> 01:48:43,815 What are you and Mike gonna do? 1266 01:48:46,610 --> 01:48:49,238 I'm alone on this. 1267 01:48:50,322 --> 01:48:52,658 - Oh, baby. - Yeah. 1268 01:48:58,622 --> 01:49:00,582 [Phone Ringing] 1269 01:49:21,854 --> 01:49:23,772 It's Jeffrey Wigand. 1270 01:49:33,574 --> 01:49:37,035 Jeffrey. How are you? 1271 01:49:37,119 --> 01:49:39,246 How's the family? Okay? 1272 01:49:39,329 --> 01:49:42,291 -There is-- There is no family. -What do you mean, "there is no family"? 1273 01:49:42,332 --> 01:49:44,626 Uh, Liane has filed for divorce. 1274 01:49:44,710 --> 01:49:48,046 And, so, I've moved out. 1275 01:49:48,130 --> 01:49:50,674 I see the girls a couple of days a week. 1276 01:49:50,757 --> 01:49:56,138 -Where are you staying now? -Our favorite hotel, honey. [ Snickers ] 1277 01:49:56,180 --> 01:50:00,267 I checked into room 930. 1278 01:50:00,350 --> 01:50:02,311 Odd choice, huh? 1279 01:50:06,106 --> 01:50:08,317 I don't know how to say this, 1280 01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:10,777 Jeff, except to just say it right out. 1281 01:50:10,819 --> 01:50:15,073 So, uh, I'll say it. They do not want to air it. 1282 01:50:16,950 --> 01:50:22,080 - What? - B& may have threatened litigation. 1283 01:50:22,164 --> 01:50:24,708 CBS is on the block. 1284 01:50:24,791 --> 01:50:27,920 - But you, I mean-- I know how you-- - No. 1285 01:50:29,004 --> 01:50:31,131 No, what? 1286 01:50:31,215 --> 01:50:35,969 I do not think that you know for me what it is to walk in my shoes. 1287 01:50:37,763 --> 01:50:40,849 For my kids to have seen it, 1288 01:50:40,933 --> 01:50:43,810 for them to know why I've put them through what I did. 1289 01:50:43,852 --> 01:50:47,481 The public airing of that, the testament to why I did what I did. 1290 01:50:47,523 --> 01:50:50,526 You're telling me it's not gonna see the light of day? 1291 01:50:50,567 --> 01:50:53,320 Jeff. 1292 01:51:35,988 --> 01:51:37,906 Mrs. Wigand? 1293 01:51:39,658 --> 01:51:42,870 It hasn't been Mrs. Wigand for some time. 1294 01:51:42,911 --> 01:51:47,583 I'm an investigator, and I was wondering if l could ask you a couple of questions about that. 1295 01:51:49,459 --> 01:51:51,420 All right. 1296 01:51:55,340 --> 01:51:57,885 Um, seven months after we were married, 1297 01:51:57,968 --> 01:52:00,387 we found out that I had multiple sclerosis. 1298 01:52:00,470 --> 01:52:02,389 [Man] And you had a daughter, Diane-- 1299 01:52:02,472 --> 01:52:04,391 [Man #2] Tommy Sandefur told me himself. 1300 01:52:04,474 --> 01:52:08,937 He's not going to allow Brown &Williamson to be demonized to the American public. 1301 01:52:08,979 --> 01:52:11,982 So I told Peter Jennings. And l-- Hold on. 1302 01:52:12,065 --> 01:52:15,694 [ Man On TV] You had multiple sclerosis. You had a small child to raise. 1303 01:52:15,777 --> 01:52:19,823 Uh, mention that part in the executive summary and in the chapters. 1304 01:52:19,907 --> 01:52:22,326 First wife and estrangement of daughter. 1305 01:52:22,367 --> 01:52:24,828 So I was telling Pete, I said, "You've been taken in by this guy." 1306 01:52:24,870 --> 01:52:27,623 The divorce was something that we both wanted. 1307 01:52:28,707 --> 01:52:31,335 He's a shoplifter. 1308 01:52:31,418 --> 01:52:33,879 He's a convicted shoplifter. 1309 01:52:52,481 --> 01:52:55,817 So, um, what are you gonna do? 1310 01:52:55,859 --> 01:52:59,029 What do you think I'm gonna do? Quit in protest? 1311 01:52:59,112 --> 01:53:01,365 I'm not gonna do that. 1312 01:53:01,406 --> 01:53:03,367 You're taking "no" for an answer? 1313 01:53:03,408 --> 01:53:06,370 No, I'm not gonna take "no" for an answer. No. 1314 01:53:06,453 --> 01:53:09,581 You're not? What are you doing? 1315 01:53:09,665 --> 01:53:13,126 I'm staying right here, doing my job. Fighting to get my show on the air. 1316 01:53:13,210 --> 01:53:15,879 You don't like it? Hey, I tell you what? 1317 01:53:15,963 --> 01:53:19,007 Fire my ass. 1318 01:53:19,091 --> 01:53:22,886 End up in a high-profile lawsuit with Lowell, the First Amendment martyr? 1319 01:53:26,223 --> 01:53:29,852 I don't think so. Take a look at this. 1320 01:53:29,935 --> 01:53:32,771 This is a summary of a dossier that's being prepared. 1321 01:53:32,855 --> 01:53:35,065 He wouldn't lie about his whole life. 1322 01:53:35,148 --> 01:53:37,901 Who's gonna believe him about anything he says? 1323 01:53:37,985 --> 01:53:41,780 The Wall Street Journal is doing a major story, and, I think, the Post. 1324 01:53:42,865 --> 01:53:45,200 You backed the wrong horse. 1325 01:53:45,242 --> 01:53:49,580 The version without the interview is gonna air the week after next. 1326 01:53:55,377 --> 01:53:58,380 What was that about? 1327 01:53:58,463 --> 01:54:00,507 - Get me Wigand. - Sure. 1328 01:54:03,594 --> 01:54:07,306 What the fuck is this? Fuck! 1329 01:54:07,389 --> 01:54:09,558 [ Bergman ] You never told me you were married before. 1330 01:54:09,600 --> 01:54:12,895 - That you had a daughter. - How is that any of your business? 1331 01:54:12,936 --> 01:54:15,355 That is not something that you people need to know. 1332 01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:17,399 Oh, you know what we do or do not need to know? 1333 01:54:17,441 --> 01:54:19,902 - Since when have you become a media expert? - What do you wanna do, Lowell? 1334 01:54:19,943 --> 01:54:22,279 - Look up my ass too? - Oh, for God's sake. 1335 01:54:22,321 --> 01:54:25,073 - You're not even on this anymore. What do you care? -Jeff, wake the fuck up! 1336 01:54:25,115 --> 01:54:28,619 Everybody is on the line here. If they catch you in a lie, 1337 01:54:28,702 --> 01:54:31,455 they can paint everything with that brush, you understand? 1338 01:54:31,496 --> 01:54:33,999 - Everything you say. - I told the truth. 1339 01:54:34,082 --> 01:54:37,586 Everything you say. And I can't defend you, man, 1340 01:54:37,669 --> 01:54:39,713 with one hand tied behind my back... 1341 01:54:39,796 --> 01:54:42,341 because you keep from me what they can discover. 1342 01:54:42,424 --> 01:54:45,135 And they will discover everything. Believe me. 1343 01:54:45,219 --> 01:54:47,387 I was young! I was young! 1344 01:54:47,471 --> 01:54:50,474 Confused. We didn't handle it the right way. 1345 01:54:50,557 --> 01:54:53,310 - She sued you for back payments of child support? - She did not sue me. 1346 01:54:53,393 --> 01:54:58,524 We had a dispute over money. I settled it. She dropped the complaint. 1347 01:54:58,607 --> 01:55:00,526 - Any other questions? - Yes. Did you lie... 1348 01:55:00,609 --> 01:55:02,819 about being on the American judo team in the Olympics? 1349 01:55:03,946 --> 01:55:06,031 - What? - Some public relations guy... 1350 01:55:06,114 --> 01:55:08,158 got hold of a tape of an interview where you're saying... 1351 01:55:08,242 --> 01:55:10,786 you were on the American judo team in the Olympics. 1352 01:55:10,869 --> 01:55:13,997 What kind of shit is this? l-- I was-- 1353 01:55:14,081 --> 01:55:17,584 I was not on the team. I sparred with the Olympic team. 1354 01:55:17,668 --> 01:55:20,671 - Okay? - All right. ABC Telemarketing Company? 1355 01:55:20,754 --> 01:55:24,424 - ABC-- - ABC Telemarketing Company. 1356 01:55:24,508 --> 01:55:27,344 The can opener! A 39.95 can opener! 1357 01:55:27,427 --> 01:55:30,138 I cancelled payment. It was junk! 1358 01:55:30,180 --> 01:55:33,350 You ever bounce a check, Lowell? You ever look at another woman's tits? 1359 01:55:33,433 --> 01:55:35,727 You ever cheat a little on your taxes? 1360 01:55:35,811 --> 01:55:39,356 Whose life, if you look at it under a microscope, doesn't have any flaws? 1361 01:55:39,439 --> 01:55:41,984 Well, that's the whole point, Jeffrey. That's the whole point. 1362 01:55:42,025 --> 01:55:45,904 Anyone's, everyone's. They are gonna look under every rock, 1363 01:55:45,988 --> 01:55:49,741 dig up every flaw, every mistake you've ever made. 1364 01:55:49,825 --> 01:55:53,787 They are going to distort and exaggerate everything you've ever done, man. 1365 01:55:53,871 --> 01:55:56,540 - Don't you understand? - What does this have to do with my testimony? 1366 01:55:56,623 --> 01:55:58,792 - That's not the point-- - What does it have to do with my testimony? 1367 01:55:58,876 --> 01:56:01,587 - I told the truth! It's true and provable! - It's not about-- 1368 01:56:01,670 --> 01:56:05,048 That's not the fucking point, whether you told the truth or not! 1369 01:56:06,592 --> 01:56:08,552 Hello? 1370 01:56:11,430 --> 01:56:13,807 I told the truth. 1371 01:56:15,517 --> 01:56:17,436 I told the truth. 1372 01:56:18,770 --> 01:56:21,356 -[Bell Ringing] - I gotta teach class. I gotta go. 1373 01:56:21,398 --> 01:56:25,194 - I gotta teach class. - And I gotta refute every fucking accusation made... 1374 01:56:25,235 --> 01:56:28,113 in this report before the WalI Street Journal runs. 1375 01:56:31,950 --> 01:56:34,036 I am trying to protect you, man. 1376 01:56:35,162 --> 01:56:37,080 I hope you improve your batting average. 1377 01:56:54,556 --> 01:56:56,475 [Dialing Phone] 1378 01:56:56,558 --> 01:56:59,895 [Woman] They're cutting the interestrate, and l have that great feature-- 1379 01:56:59,937 --> 01:57:02,731 - [ Chattering ] -[Phone Ringing] 1380 01:57:06,235 --> 01:57:08,153 - Hello? - It's Lowell. 1381 01:57:08,237 --> 01:57:12,866 Are you guys planning to do a piece on a former top executive in Big Tobacco? 1382 01:57:12,950 --> 01:57:15,786 - You caught me in a news meeting. - Are you, are you not, Charlie? 1383 01:57:15,827 --> 01:57:17,829 You bet we are, and I can't talk to you now. 1384 01:57:17,913 --> 01:57:20,832 - We gotta hook up. - Sure. Where? 1385 01:57:20,916 --> 01:57:23,794 - P.J.'s. - I'll be there. 1386 01:57:23,877 --> 01:57:25,796 [Phone Beeps] 1387 01:57:28,423 --> 01:57:30,801 [Siren Wailing] 1388 01:57:30,843 --> 01:57:33,470 Yeah, I got it. Five hundred pages of it. 1389 01:57:33,554 --> 01:57:37,182 They looked in every corner of this guy's life, from the spousal abuse charge, 1390 01:57:37,266 --> 01:57:40,936 to shoplifting, to a traffic ticket he got once for running a red light. 1391 01:57:41,019 --> 01:57:44,565 It's Terry Lenzner's outfit, l.G.I. Jack, listen to me. 1392 01:57:44,648 --> 01:57:49,236 Their strategy: discredit this guy, ruin his reputation in the WalI Street Journal... 1393 01:57:49,319 --> 01:57:52,698 and then nobody will ever listen to what he's got to say about tobacco. 1394 01:57:52,781 --> 01:57:55,909 He's dead unless I can get this thing knocked down. 1395 01:57:55,993 --> 01:57:58,412 Make it even a little more attractive. 1396 01:57:58,495 --> 01:58:01,081 I don't know if you're ever gonna get paid. 1397 01:58:01,164 --> 01:58:03,750 - Is there any truth to any of it? - That's a good question. 1398 01:58:03,834 --> 01:58:06,211 "ls there any truth to any of it?" I doubt it. 1399 01:58:06,295 --> 01:58:09,756 - What's the deadline? - Soon. 1400 01:58:13,677 --> 01:58:16,513 - Fax me the summary. - That's great, Jack. 1401 01:58:16,597 --> 01:58:19,474 [ Crowd Chattering ] 1402 01:58:23,228 --> 01:58:26,815 - Hey. How are you? Hey, listen. - Hey. 1403 01:58:26,857 --> 01:58:30,194 I hear you guys are sitting on something sensational over there. 1404 01:58:30,235 --> 01:58:33,822 - Really? Hi, June. - Oh, hi, baby. 1405 01:58:35,616 --> 01:58:37,743 - Catch you later. - Okay. Take care. 1406 01:58:39,578 --> 01:58:41,538 - When's your deadline? - Monday. 1407 01:58:41,580 --> 01:58:44,541 - Push it. - What? Forget it. 1408 01:58:44,583 --> 01:58:46,543 It's a smear campaign, Charlie. 1409 01:58:46,585 --> 01:58:48,545 - It's drawn from a selectively circulated-- - Oh, yeah. 1410 01:58:48,629 --> 01:58:51,673 Real selective. About as hard to get a hold of as the Manhattan phone book. 1411 01:58:51,715 --> 01:58:55,552 Well, it's authoritive... and overwhelmingly documented. 1412 01:58:55,594 --> 01:58:58,597 And it's bullshit. And if I'm right, are you gonna put... 1413 01:58:58,680 --> 01:59:01,850 the Journal's reputation behind a story that's gonna blow up in your face? 1414 01:59:01,934 --> 01:59:05,854 I'll take a look at what you got but I'm not moving any deadlines because you say so. 1415 01:59:13,403 --> 01:59:15,364 Are you all right? 1416 01:59:17,616 --> 01:59:19,576 Yeah. 1417 01:59:28,877 --> 01:59:31,255 [ Woman ] Officer Muravchick? 1418 01:59:31,338 --> 01:59:34,383 Thank you. 1419 01:59:34,424 --> 01:59:36,844 Officer Muravchick, how are you? 1420 01:59:36,927 --> 01:59:39,012 - I'm Sandra Sutherland. - How do you do? 1421 01:59:39,096 --> 01:59:41,139 Fine, thank you. I'm doing a background check. 1422 01:59:41,223 --> 01:59:43,141 Mind if l sit down? 1423 01:59:45,352 --> 01:59:49,106 Your Honor, could I have a word with you? 1424 01:59:49,189 --> 01:59:52,943 You presided in a dispute over support payments. 1425 01:59:53,026 --> 01:59:56,321 Jeffrey Wigand? Yeah, I cited him. 1426 01:59:56,405 --> 02:00:00,450 CBS is under criticism because the CBS News program, 60 Minutes, 1427 02:00:00,534 --> 02:00:02,494 will not be presenting an interview-- 1428 02:00:02,578 --> 02:00:05,455 What the hell are you doing? 1429 02:00:05,539 --> 02:00:07,583 What does it look like I'm doing? I'm editing. 1430 02:00:07,624 --> 02:00:10,502 No, no, no that. I'm talking about the Associated Press. 1431 02:00:10,586 --> 02:00:15,174 They got the story that we pulled this interview, and they talked to Mike and l. 1432 02:00:15,257 --> 02:00:17,259 Did you tell them that we were lying? 1433 02:00:17,301 --> 02:00:19,303 No! I should have. 1434 02:00:19,344 --> 02:00:21,555 I told them I disagreed with you, Mike and Kluster... 1435 02:00:21,638 --> 02:00:24,474 that this segment is as good as the original. 1436 02:00:24,516 --> 02:00:26,643 I'm not lying for you. I'm not gonna shut up for you. 1437 02:00:26,727 --> 02:00:29,605 - Not on any of it. - Hey, I'm not gonna fire you. 1438 02:00:29,646 --> 02:00:32,691 Okay? Take a vacation. Now! 1439 02:00:32,774 --> 02:00:35,027 [Phone Ringing] 1440 02:00:36,361 --> 02:00:39,990 Lowell? Look, I've decided to preface Sunday's show. 1441 02:00:40,073 --> 02:00:42,868 I did three minutes on the Ewening News. You'll want to see it. 1442 02:00:42,951 --> 02:00:45,954 - Where are you going? - I've been banished... 1443 02:00:46,038 --> 02:00:49,291 in lieu of being fired. 1444 02:00:49,333 --> 02:00:52,336 I took off on Tisch. I took off on Corporate. 1445 02:00:52,377 --> 02:00:55,005 They'll know they're not, uh, going to see everything on Sunday night. 1446 02:00:56,340 --> 02:00:59,551 I don't know. How does that get Wigand on the air? 1447 02:00:59,635 --> 02:01:01,762 Do me a favor, will you? Spare me. 1448 02:01:01,845 --> 02:01:04,306 For God's sake, get in the real world. What do you think? 1449 02:01:04,348 --> 02:01:07,976 I'm going to resign in protest to force it on the air? 1450 02:01:08,018 --> 02:01:10,938 The answer's no. I don't plan to spend the end of my days... 1451 02:01:11,021 --> 02:01:14,024 wandering in the wilderness of National Public Radio. 1452 02:01:14,107 --> 02:01:16,026 That decision I've already made. 1453 02:01:18,028 --> 02:01:20,447 [Woman On TV] This Sunday, Wallace will broadcast a report... 1454 02:01:20,531 --> 02:01:24,785 on the tobacco industry, including the tough tactics tobacco companies employ... 1455 02:01:24,868 --> 02:01:27,663 to keep a lid on information that might be damaging. 1456 02:01:27,704 --> 02:01:30,499 Is there information that people should have... 1457 02:01:30,582 --> 02:01:34,920 that they're not going to have because you're not going to broadcast this interview? 1458 02:01:35,003 --> 02:01:39,049 - Yes. - Today, CBS News president Eric Kluster... 1459 02:01:39,132 --> 02:01:41,885 defended the network's decision not to broadcast... 1460 02:01:41,969 --> 02:01:44,930 key portions of the controversial interview. 1461 02:01:45,013 --> 02:01:47,808 Mr. Kluster said, quote, "The atmosphere is tougher than ever. " 1462 02:01:47,891 --> 02:01:50,352 - Where's the rest? - [ Woman On TV] Dan. 1463 02:01:50,435 --> 02:01:52,396 Where the hell's the rest? 1464 02:01:52,437 --> 02:01:55,399 - [Dan]Nebraska football fans voiced their criticism-- - You cut it! 1465 02:01:55,482 --> 02:01:58,402 Coming up in Bernard Goldberg's America. 1466 02:01:58,443 --> 02:02:01,446 - You cut the guts out of what I said! - It was a time consideration-- 1467 02:02:01,530 --> 02:02:04,366 Time? Bullshit! You corporate lackey. 1468 02:02:04,408 --> 02:02:08,245 Who told you your incompetent little fingers have the requisite skills to edit me? 1469 02:02:08,328 --> 02:02:11,039 I'm trying to Band-Aid a situation here, and you're too dim-- 1470 02:02:11,123 --> 02:02:13,500 Mike. Mike. Mike. 1471 02:02:13,584 --> 02:02:17,588 " Mike"? Mike! 1472 02:02:17,671 --> 02:02:19,464 Try " Mr. Wallace." 1473 02:02:19,548 --> 02:02:23,427 We work in the same corporation. Doesn't mean we work in the same profession. 1474 02:02:23,468 --> 02:02:26,054 Now, now what are you going to do now? You going to finesse me? 1475 02:02:26,138 --> 02:02:30,475 Lawyer me some more? I've been in this profession 50 fucking years! 1476 02:02:30,559 --> 02:02:33,437 You and the people you work for are destroying the most respected, 1477 02:02:33,478 --> 02:02:36,440 the highest rated, the most profitable show on this network. 1478 02:02:52,497 --> 02:02:55,834 Here. These are their leads, their sources. 1479 02:02:55,918 --> 02:02:59,171 - I want you to have your reporters-- - Sue in Hwang and Milo Geyelin. 1480 02:02:59,254 --> 02:03:01,423 Have them make their own calls. 1481 02:03:01,507 --> 02:03:06,261 They'll find that these sources have a different story than the one that's in the dossier. 1482 02:03:07,554 --> 02:03:09,473 Push the deadline, Charlie. 1483 02:03:14,728 --> 02:03:19,066 I'll push it for a week. I want Milo and Suein to go through it. 1484 02:03:33,330 --> 02:03:35,374 What do you want to buy him for a gift? 1485 02:03:35,457 --> 02:03:39,211 Mmm, he's into kind of little cars that, um-- 1486 02:03:39,294 --> 02:03:41,505 - That remote control thing? - Yeah. 1487 02:03:41,588 --> 02:03:43,882 All right. We'll go do that tomorrow. 1488 02:03:43,966 --> 02:03:48,345 [Man On TV] The 63-36 vote was three shy of the two-thirds needed to pass-- 1489 02:03:48,387 --> 02:03:50,848 - Mom. There's Dad. - Yes? 1490 02:03:50,889 --> 02:03:54,309 - On the TV. - [Man On TV]...dating back to 1986. 1491 02:03:54,351 --> 02:03:56,520 The most recent trouble for Wigand occurred here-- 1492 02:03:56,603 --> 02:03:58,730 And in local news, WLKO, Louisville, 1493 02:03:58,814 --> 02:04:01,400 has gained access to a 500-page dossier... 1494 02:04:01,483 --> 02:04:04,361 on former Brown &Williamson research head, Jeffrey Wigand, 1495 02:04:04,444 --> 02:04:08,323 detailing charges of shoplifting and failing to pay child support. 1496 02:04:08,365 --> 02:04:10,367 Wigand is currently teaching chemistry and Japanese... 1497 02:04:10,450 --> 02:04:12,369 at the DuPont ManuaI High School. 1498 02:04:12,452 --> 02:04:14,371 Maria. 1499 02:04:25,924 --> 02:04:28,051 [Ticking] 1500 02:04:36,018 --> 02:04:38,270 [Wallace] Thousands of documents from inside the tobacco industry... 1501 02:04:38,353 --> 02:04:40,439 have surfaced over the past year. 1502 02:04:40,480 --> 02:04:42,524 Documents that appear to confirm... 1503 02:04:42,608 --> 02:04:44,526 what a former U.S. surgeon general... 1504 02:04:44,610 --> 02:04:48,488 and the current head of the Food and Drug Administration have been saying. 1505 02:04:48,530 --> 02:04:51,158 We learned of a tobacco insider who could tell us... 1506 02:04:51,241 --> 02:04:55,245 whether or not the tobacco industry has been leveling with the public. 1507 02:04:55,329 --> 02:04:57,247 That insider was formerly... 1508 02:04:57,331 --> 02:05:00,250 a highly-placed executive with a tobacco company. 1509 02:05:00,334 --> 02:05:04,171 But we cannot broadcast what critical information about tobacco, 1510 02:05:04,213 --> 02:05:07,508 addiction and public health he might be able to offer. 1511 02:05:07,591 --> 02:05:11,428 Why? Because he had to sign a confidentiality agreement... 1512 02:05:11,512 --> 02:05:13,847 with the tobacco company he worked for. 1513 02:05:13,931 --> 02:05:17,059 The management of CBS has told us... 1514 02:05:17,142 --> 02:05:19,269 that knowing he had that agreement... 1515 02:05:19,353 --> 02:05:21,813 if we were to broadcast an interview with him, 1516 02:05:21,897 --> 02:05:25,817 CBS could be faced with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit. 1517 02:05:25,901 --> 02:05:29,530 The fact is, we are not allowed ewen to mention his name... 1518 02:05:29,613 --> 02:05:32,366 or the name of the company he worked for. 1519 02:05:32,407 --> 02:05:36,745 And, of course, we cannot show you his face. 1520 02:05:36,828 --> 02:05:39,915 And your confidentiality agreement with-- [ Beep ] 1521 02:05:39,998 --> 02:05:42,543 - Is still in force? - [ Voice Over] Yes, it is. 1522 02:05:42,626 --> 02:05:45,754 So what are they gonna do? Sue you for making this appearance? 1523 02:05:45,838 --> 02:05:48,215 [Voice Ower] I would bet on it. 1524 02:05:48,257 --> 02:05:51,260 [Wallace] The former executive has reason to bet on being sued, 1525 02:05:51,343 --> 02:05:54,221 for major cigarette manufacturers-- 1526 02:06:10,279 --> 02:06:13,240 [ Phone Beeping ] 1527 02:06:13,323 --> 02:06:16,285 - [ Ringing ] - Yeah. 1528 02:06:16,368 --> 02:06:18,829 [ Wallace ] You disappeared on me. 1529 02:06:18,912 --> 02:06:22,249 - How long you staying? - I disappeared on you? 1530 02:06:22,291 --> 02:06:24,960 All right. What did you think? 1531 02:06:26,044 --> 02:06:28,338 I think it was a disgrace. 1532 02:06:28,422 --> 02:06:30,340 [ Dial Tone ] 1533 02:06:31,592 --> 02:06:33,760 [Dialing Phone] 1534 02:06:33,802 --> 02:06:37,181 [Phone Ringing] 1535 02:06:37,264 --> 02:06:40,475 ##[Vocalizing] 1536 02:06:51,945 --> 02:06:55,657 - [ Man ] Still no answer. - Get me the manager's office. 1537 02:06:56,867 --> 02:06:59,119 David. David, you've got a call on line four. 1538 02:06:59,203 --> 02:07:02,247 I think you better take it. 1539 02:07:02,331 --> 02:07:04,333 This is David McDougal. How can I help you? 1540 02:07:04,416 --> 02:07:08,295 Mr. McDougal, my name is Lowell Bergman. I'm a producer for 60 Minutes. 1541 02:07:08,337 --> 02:07:13,717 I'm concerned for a friend of mine who's staying at your hotel right now. 1542 02:07:20,349 --> 02:07:22,476 Mr. Wigand? 1543 02:07:22,559 --> 02:07:24,478 Mr. Wigand? 1544 02:07:30,150 --> 02:07:33,320 I-l think I need to call the police. He won't respond. 1545 02:07:33,362 --> 02:07:36,114 No, no, don't call the police. Just tell him I'm on the phone with you. 1546 02:07:36,198 --> 02:07:38,659 My name is Lowell Bergman. Just tell him that. 1547 02:07:38,700 --> 02:07:43,247 Mr. Wigand, Mr. Bergman is on the telephone. 1548 02:07:43,330 --> 02:07:45,791 Did he hear you? 1549 02:07:45,874 --> 02:07:48,210 - [ Phone Beeps ] - You're breaking up. I can't hear you. 1550 02:07:48,293 --> 02:07:50,879 What about now? 1551 02:07:50,963 --> 02:07:53,465 - What? - Hello? Can you hear me now? 1552 02:07:53,549 --> 02:07:56,343 ##[Continues] 1553 02:09:01,200 --> 02:09:05,078 - What's happening? - He doesn't seem to be listening. 1554 02:09:05,162 --> 02:09:09,082 All right. Now listen to me. I want you-- I want you to tell him... 1555 02:09:09,124 --> 02:09:11,585 in these words: Get on the fucking phone. 1556 02:09:11,627 --> 02:09:13,921 I-l can't say that. 1557 02:09:13,962 --> 02:09:16,507 No, you can. Tell him to get on the fucking phone! 1558 02:09:16,590 --> 02:09:19,676 He told me to tell you to get on the... fucking phone! 1559 02:09:23,680 --> 02:09:25,599 ##[Ends] 1560 02:09:25,682 --> 02:09:28,602 You manipulated me into this. 1561 02:09:28,644 --> 02:09:30,938 - That's bullshit, Jeff. - You greased the rails. 1562 02:09:30,979 --> 02:09:35,108 I greased the rails for a guy who wanted to say "yes." I helped him to say "yes." 1563 02:09:35,192 --> 02:09:37,819 That's all. You're not a robot, Jeff. 1564 02:09:37,903 --> 02:09:40,822 - All right? You got a mind of your own, don't you? - " Up to you, Jeffrey. 1565 02:09:40,906 --> 02:09:43,116 "That's the power you have, Jeffrey. 1566 02:09:43,158 --> 02:09:45,619 Vital inside information the American public need to know." 1567 02:09:45,702 --> 02:09:49,164 Lowell Bergman-- the hotshot who never met a source he couldn't turn around. 1568 02:09:49,248 --> 02:09:51,458 I fought for you, and I still fight for you! 1569 02:09:51,500 --> 02:09:54,169 You fought for me? You manipulated me... 1570 02:09:54,253 --> 02:09:57,297 into where I am now-- staring at the Brown &Williamson building! 1571 02:09:57,381 --> 02:10:00,592 It's all dark except the tenth floor. That's the legal department. 1572 02:10:00,676 --> 02:10:04,513 That's where they fuck with my life. 1573 02:10:07,641 --> 02:10:09,560 Jeffrey, where you going with this? 1574 02:10:11,186 --> 02:10:13,981 So, where you going? 1575 02:10:18,151 --> 02:10:20,988 You are... important... 1576 02:10:21,029 --> 02:10:23,949 to a lot of people, Jeffrey. 1577 02:10:23,991 --> 02:10:26,076 You think about that. 1578 02:10:27,160 --> 02:10:29,079 You think about them. 1579 02:10:42,176 --> 02:10:44,553 I'm running out of heroes, man. 1580 02:10:45,679 --> 02:10:47,806 Guys like you are in short supply. 1581 02:10:53,937 --> 02:10:55,856 Yeah, guys like you too. 1582 02:11:00,652 --> 02:11:02,738 Where are you, anyway? 1583 02:11:02,821 --> 02:11:07,326 I'm on a leave of absence. Forced vacation. 1584 02:11:09,536 --> 02:11:12,706 - You try and have a good time. - Yeah. 1585 02:11:12,789 --> 02:11:15,083 Yeah, I will. 1586 02:11:29,515 --> 02:11:32,559 I'm Lowell Bergman. I'm from 60 Minutes. You know, you take the 60 Minutes... 1587 02:11:32,643 --> 02:11:35,187 out of that sentence, nobody returns your phone calls. 1588 02:11:36,480 --> 02:11:40,275 Maybe Wigand's right. Maybe I'm hooked. 1589 02:11:41,610 --> 02:11:43,529 What am I hooked on? 1590 02:11:43,612 --> 02:11:45,864 The rush of 60 Minutes? 1591 02:11:45,948 --> 02:11:49,743 What the hell for? "lnfotainment"! 1592 02:11:49,826 --> 02:11:52,079 It's so fucking useless, all of it. 1593 02:11:52,162 --> 02:11:55,874 So it's a big country with a free press. You can go and work somewhere else. 1594 02:11:55,958 --> 02:11:58,043 " Free press"? The press is free. 1595 02:11:58,126 --> 02:12:01,797 For anyone who owns one. Larry Tisch has a free press. 1596 02:12:01,839 --> 02:12:04,049 - Get some perspective, Lowell. - I got perspective. 1597 02:12:04,132 --> 02:12:06,093 No, you do not. 1598 02:12:07,553 --> 02:12:10,055 From my perspective, 1599 02:12:10,138 --> 02:12:14,017 what's been going on and what I've been doing is ridiculous. 1600 02:12:14,101 --> 02:12:16,436 - It's half-measures. - You're not listening. 1601 02:12:22,860 --> 02:12:25,821 Really know what you're going to do before you do it. 1602 02:12:59,938 --> 02:13:01,857 [Beeping] 1603 02:13:03,859 --> 02:13:05,777 [ Beeping Stops ] 1604 02:13:07,487 --> 02:13:09,573 [Debbie] I've got Richard Scruggs on the phone. 1605 02:13:09,698 --> 02:13:12,576 - Patch him through. - [ Ringing ] 1606 02:13:12,659 --> 02:13:15,454 Well, Lowell, you are not gonna believe this. 1607 02:13:15,537 --> 02:13:19,833 The governor of Mississippi is suing his own attorney general... 1608 02:13:19,917 --> 02:13:23,504 to abandon litigation against Big Tobacco. 1609 02:13:23,587 --> 02:13:27,466 - Oh, good. - But now that the version without Jeff ran, 1610 02:13:27,549 --> 02:13:30,886 what's the chance of getting his interview on the air? 1611 02:13:33,347 --> 02:13:35,432 - Hello? - Yeah, I'm here. 1612 02:13:35,516 --> 02:13:37,893 What chance is there of getting Jeffs interview on the air? 1613 02:13:37,935 --> 02:13:39,895 Less than great. 1614 02:13:44,566 --> 02:13:46,860 I'd be lying to you if l did not tell you... 1615 02:13:46,944 --> 02:13:50,322 how important it was in the court of public opinion. 1616 02:13:50,405 --> 02:13:53,075 I'd be lying to you if l didn't tell you... 1617 02:13:53,158 --> 02:13:56,912 I'm about out of moves, Dick. 1618 02:13:56,954 --> 02:13:59,081 [ Chattering ] 1619 02:13:59,164 --> 02:14:01,124 All right. See ya. 1620 02:14:11,927 --> 02:14:14,429 [ DoorbelI Jangling ] 1621 02:14:15,973 --> 02:14:18,058 [DoorbelI Jangling] 1622 02:14:23,272 --> 02:14:25,899 Hi. 1623 02:14:27,651 --> 02:14:31,989 So, what are you folks doing... here in Lincoln? 1624 02:14:33,073 --> 02:14:37,077 - Geology survey. - Geology? 1625 02:14:37,160 --> 02:14:40,163 Yeah? Really? 1626 02:14:40,247 --> 02:14:42,165 How about you? 1627 02:14:43,584 --> 02:14:46,128 I work for CBS News. 1628 02:14:46,211 --> 02:14:48,714 Oh, yeah? 1629 02:15:06,398 --> 02:15:08,859 [DoorbelI Jangling, Door Closes] 1630 02:15:16,033 --> 02:15:18,619 Just ran into two of your geologists. 1631 02:15:18,702 --> 02:15:21,205 Geologists whose hands aren't all chewed up. 1632 02:15:21,288 --> 02:15:25,334 Lowell, do not... screw this up. 1633 02:15:25,417 --> 02:15:27,794 We are a week away from an arrest. 1634 02:15:27,878 --> 02:15:32,216 - So I'll hold it. And? - We'll give you a heads-up before we launch. 1635 02:15:32,257 --> 02:15:34,760 - How long? - Three hours. 1636 02:15:34,843 --> 02:15:36,762 You got a deal. 1637 02:15:52,069 --> 02:15:55,739 [Wallace] ...like the testimony before Congress of Dr. Wigand's former boss, 1638 02:15:55,822 --> 02:15:59,576 Brown &Williamson's chief executive officer, Thomas Sandefur. 1639 02:15:59,660 --> 02:16:01,912 I believe that nicotine is not addictive. 1640 02:16:01,954 --> 02:16:04,456 I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself... 1641 02:16:04,540 --> 02:16:08,252 - because I watched those testimonies very carefully. - All of us did. 1642 02:16:08,293 --> 02:16:10,504 There was this whole line of people, 1643 02:16:10,587 --> 02:16:13,090 whole line of C.E.O.'s up there all swearing. 1644 02:16:13,173 --> 02:16:16,260 Part of the reason I'm here is that I felt... 1645 02:16:16,343 --> 02:16:18,554 that their representation-- 1646 02:16:40,242 --> 02:16:42,953 [ No Audio ] 1647 02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:49,918 ...can be more rapidly absorbed in the lung... 1648 02:16:50,002 --> 02:16:52,129 and therefore affect the brain and central nervous system. 1649 02:17:14,693 --> 02:17:16,737 [Phone Ringing] 1650 02:17:16,820 --> 02:17:18,739 - Hello? -Jim, it's Lowell. 1651 02:17:18,822 --> 02:17:22,534 - Hey, where are you? - Remember that night at P.J.'s? 1652 02:17:22,618 --> 02:17:26,121 You asked me if we were sitting on something explosive. Well, we're not sitting on it. 1653 02:17:26,205 --> 02:17:29,917 CBS Corporate leaned on CBS News, which yanked an interview we did... 1654 02:17:30,000 --> 02:17:33,962 with a top-ranking tobacco scientist, corporate officer. 1655 02:17:34,046 --> 02:17:36,089 They're trying to close down the story. 1656 02:17:36,173 --> 02:17:39,426 You mean, 60 Minutes is letting CBS Corporate... 1657 02:17:39,510 --> 02:17:41,845 decide what is or is not news? 1658 02:17:41,929 --> 02:17:44,556 What's Wallace think about this? Or Hewitt, or-- 1659 02:17:44,640 --> 02:17:46,767 How prominent? What kind of placement? 1660 02:17:46,850 --> 02:17:50,312 Oh, come on, Lowell. This is The New York Times. I don't know. 1661 02:17:50,354 --> 02:17:54,566 Well, until you do, all I can tell you is what you already know. 1662 02:17:54,650 --> 02:17:56,652 They will not air an interview. 1663 02:17:56,735 --> 02:17:59,112 Call me back in ten. 1664 02:18:00,739 --> 02:18:02,699 [Phone Ringing] 1665 02:18:06,912 --> 02:18:09,206 - Hello? - Debbie, it's me. 1666 02:18:09,289 --> 02:18:11,708 Hi. What time is it? 1667 02:18:11,792 --> 02:18:15,838 - Oh, it's late. - That I know. When are you coming back? 1668 02:18:15,921 --> 02:18:18,674 I can't get out of here till mid-morning. I'll be in tomorrow night. 1669 02:18:18,757 --> 02:18:22,386 Listen, could you call a number for me? It's in Mississippi. 1670 02:18:22,469 --> 02:18:24,388 Okay. Hold on a second. 1671 02:18:26,849 --> 02:18:28,809 What is it? 1672 02:18:32,396 --> 02:18:34,565 [Phone Ringing] 1673 02:18:34,648 --> 02:18:36,567 - Hello? - It's Lowell. 1674 02:18:36,650 --> 02:18:40,654 All right, Lowell. Page one. Editorial's interested. Let's talk. 1675 02:18:40,737 --> 02:18:45,117 Here's how it works. You ask me questions. I tell you if you're wrong. 1676 02:18:45,200 --> 02:18:49,454 - Lowell, you sure you want to do this? - Why? 1677 02:18:49,538 --> 02:18:53,083 Hey, it doesn't work, you've burned your bridges, man. 1678 02:18:53,166 --> 02:18:55,335 You ready? 1679 02:18:55,419 --> 02:18:57,963 Okay. About this whistle-blower, 1680 02:18:58,046 --> 02:19:00,757 did Mike and Don go along with the corporate decision? 1681 02:19:02,926 --> 02:19:07,723 - Lowell? - Did I tell you you were wrong? 1682 02:19:07,764 --> 02:19:11,727 No. Um, I'm assuming the cave-in begins... 1683 02:19:11,810 --> 02:19:14,229 with the threat of litigation from Big Tobacco. 1684 02:19:14,271 --> 02:19:16,773 Are we talking, uh-- 1685 02:19:16,857 --> 02:19:19,735 Are we talking Brown &Williamson here? 1686 02:19:52,559 --> 02:19:54,603 [ Wallace ] Did I get you up? 1687 02:19:54,686 --> 02:19:58,732 No, I usually sit around my hotel room dressed like this at 5:30 in the morning, 1688 02:19:58,815 --> 02:20:00,734 sleepy look on my face. 1689 02:20:02,778 --> 02:20:04,780 How many shows have we done? Huh? 1690 02:20:04,821 --> 02:20:06,949 - Come on. How many? - Oh, lots. 1691 02:20:06,990 --> 02:20:08,951 That's right. 1692 02:20:10,869 --> 02:20:13,372 But in all that time, Mike, 1693 02:20:13,455 --> 02:20:16,250 did you ever get off a plane, walk into a room... 1694 02:20:16,333 --> 02:20:21,505 and find that a source for a story changed his mind? 1695 02:20:21,588 --> 02:20:23,882 Lost his heart? Walked out on us? 1696 02:20:23,966 --> 02:20:26,635 Not one fucking time. You wanna know why? 1697 02:20:26,718 --> 02:20:29,263 I see a rhetorical question on the horizon. 1698 02:20:29,346 --> 02:20:31,265 I'm gonna tell you why. 1699 02:20:31,348 --> 02:20:34,768 Because when I tell someone I'm gonna do something, I deliver. 1700 02:20:34,852 --> 02:20:38,981 Oh, how fortunate I am to have Lowell Bergman's moral tutelage... 1701 02:20:39,064 --> 02:20:41,817 - to point me down the shining path, to show me the way. - Oh, please, Mike. 1702 02:20:41,859 --> 02:20:44,152 - Give me a break. - You give me a break. 1703 02:20:44,194 --> 02:20:47,322 I never left a source hung out to dry ewer. 1704 02:20:47,406 --> 02:20:50,325 Abandoned. Not till right fucking now. 1705 02:20:50,367 --> 02:20:54,121 When I came on this job, I came with my word intact. 1706 02:20:54,204 --> 02:20:58,125 I'm gonna leave with my word intact. Fuck the rules of the game! 1707 02:20:58,208 --> 02:21:00,169 Hell, you're supposed to know me, Mike. 1708 02:21:00,210 --> 02:21:02,337 What the hell did you expect? 1709 02:21:02,379 --> 02:21:05,048 You expect me to lie down? 1710 02:21:05,132 --> 02:21:08,135 Back off? Or get over it? 1711 02:21:08,218 --> 02:21:12,389 In the real world, when you get to where I am, there are other considerations. 1712 02:21:12,472 --> 02:21:15,684 Like what? Corporate responsibility? 1713 02:21:15,726 --> 02:21:17,978 - What, are we talking celebrity here? - I'm not-- 1714 02:21:18,061 --> 02:21:21,982 I'm not talking about celebrity, vanity, CBS. I'm-- 1715 02:21:22,065 --> 02:21:24,026 I'm-- I'm talking about... 1716 02:21:24,067 --> 02:21:28,197 when you're nearer the end of your life than the beginning. 1717 02:21:28,280 --> 02:21:32,034 And what do you think you think about then? The future? 1718 02:21:32,075 --> 02:21:34,745 "ln the future, I'm gonna do this, become that"? 1719 02:21:34,828 --> 02:21:37,039 What future? No. 1720 02:21:37,080 --> 02:21:40,000 What you think is... 1721 02:21:40,083 --> 02:21:42,586 " How will I be regarded in the end... 1722 02:21:42,669 --> 02:21:46,256 after I'm gone?" 1723 02:21:46,340 --> 02:21:50,302 Oh, along the way, I suppose I made some minor impact. 1724 02:21:50,385 --> 02:21:54,431 I did lrangate, the Ayatollah, Malcolm X, 1725 02:21:54,515 --> 02:21:57,267 Martin Luther King, Saddam, Sadat, etc., etc. 1726 02:21:57,351 --> 02:22:02,064 I showed them thieves in suits. I spent a lifetime building... 1727 02:22:02,105 --> 02:22:04,066 all that. 1728 02:22:05,651 --> 02:22:10,989 But history only remembers most what you did last. 1729 02:22:11,073 --> 02:22:14,201 And should that be fronting a segment... 1730 02:22:14,284 --> 02:22:18,038 that allowed a tobacco giant to crash this network-- 1731 02:22:24,253 --> 02:22:26,755 Does it give someone... 1732 02:22:26,839 --> 02:22:32,135 at my time of life pause? 1733 02:22:32,219 --> 02:22:34,137 Yeah. 1734 02:22:41,103 --> 02:22:43,021 Mike, 1735 02:22:44,815 --> 02:22:46,733 in my-- 1736 02:22:48,861 --> 02:22:52,030 You and I have been doing this... 1737 02:22:52,114 --> 02:22:55,951 together for 1 4 years. 1738 02:22:57,578 --> 02:23:00,539 This is today's New York Times. 1739 02:23:00,622 --> 02:23:02,791 In it is the whole sordid story... 1740 02:23:02,875 --> 02:23:06,461 of what went on inside our shop. 1741 02:23:06,503 --> 02:23:11,049 And in the editorial, it accuses us... 1742 02:23:11,133 --> 02:23:14,094 of betraying the legacy of Edward R. Murrow. 1743 02:23:23,812 --> 02:23:28,192 [Door Opens] 1744 02:23:28,233 --> 02:23:30,194 [Door Closes] 1745 02:23:39,286 --> 02:23:42,080 They conclude most of it seems pretty unsubstantiated. 1746 02:23:51,215 --> 02:23:53,133 You're full of shit, John. 1747 02:23:58,972 --> 02:24:02,017 [Phone Ringing] 1748 02:24:03,810 --> 02:24:05,771 Yeah. 1749 02:24:05,812 --> 02:24:08,524 [Debbie] Front page. There's a picture of Wigand. 1750 02:24:08,607 --> 02:24:10,526 Article's entitled, "Getting Personal. " 1751 02:24:10,609 --> 02:24:12,611 Byline to Sue in Hwang and Milo Geyelin. 1752 02:24:12,653 --> 02:24:15,113 Wait. Hold on a second, Lowell. 1753 02:24:15,155 --> 02:24:17,032 Yeah. 1754 02:24:21,537 --> 02:24:24,164 Yeah, I'll see if l can find him. 1755 02:24:24,248 --> 02:24:27,376 Yeah, hold on. Don's looking for you. 1756 02:24:27,459 --> 02:24:30,838 - Good. - The subheading is " Brown &Williamson... 1757 02:24:30,921 --> 02:24:34,132 has a 500-page dossier attacking chief critic." 1758 02:24:34,174 --> 02:24:36,593 It quotes Richard Scruggs calling it the worst kind... 1759 02:24:36,677 --> 02:24:39,972 of an organized smear campaign against a whistle-blower. 1760 02:24:40,013 --> 02:24:43,517 "A close look at the file and independent research by this newspaper... 1761 02:24:43,600 --> 02:24:46,895 "into its key claim indicates that many of the serious allegations... 1762 02:24:46,979 --> 02:24:52,276 against Mr. Wigand are backed by scant or contradictory evidence." 1763 02:25:11,712 --> 02:25:14,381 [Bergman] This news division has been wilified... 1764 02:25:14,464 --> 02:25:17,301 in The New York Times, in print, on television... 1765 02:25:17,384 --> 02:25:19,303 for caving to corporate interests! 1766 02:25:19,386 --> 02:25:23,348 The New York Times ran a blow-by-blow of what we talked about behind closed doors. 1767 02:25:23,390 --> 02:25:26,143 - You fucked us! - No! You fucked you! 1768 02:25:26,226 --> 02:25:28,187 Don't invert stuff. 1769 02:25:28,270 --> 02:25:31,106 Big Tobacco tried to smear Wigand. You bought it. 1770 02:25:31,190 --> 02:25:34,109 The WalI Street Journal-- here-- not exactly... 1771 02:25:34,193 --> 02:25:36,862 a bastion of anti-capitalist sentiment, 1772 02:25:36,945 --> 02:25:39,531 refutes Big Tobacco's smear campaign... 1773 02:25:39,573 --> 02:25:43,035 as the lowest form of character assassination. 1774 02:25:43,076 --> 02:25:45,078 And now, even now, when every word... 1775 02:25:45,120 --> 02:25:48,123 of what Wigand has said on our show is printed, 1776 02:25:48,207 --> 02:25:51,835 the entire deposition of his testimony in a court of law... 1777 02:25:51,919 --> 02:25:54,046 in the state of Mississippi, the cat... 1778 02:25:54,129 --> 02:25:56,840 totally out of the bag, 1779 02:25:56,924 --> 02:25:58,967 you're still standing here debating. 1780 02:25:59,051 --> 02:26:03,388 Don, what the hell else do you need? 1781 02:26:03,430 --> 02:26:05,849 Mike, you tell him. 1782 02:26:05,933 --> 02:26:07,893 You fucked up, Don. 1783 02:26:15,192 --> 02:26:18,237 It's old news. Stick with me, like always. We'll be okay. 1784 02:26:18,278 --> 02:26:21,406 These things have a half-life of 1 5 minutes. 1785 02:26:21,448 --> 02:26:25,452 No, that's fame. Fame has a 1 5-minute half-life. 1786 02:26:25,536 --> 02:26:27,496 Infamy lasts a little longer. 1787 02:26:27,579 --> 02:26:32,751 We caved. It's foolish. It's simply dead wrong. 1788 02:26:32,835 --> 02:26:36,755 Now this is what we're going to do. We're going over to Black Rock-- 1789 02:26:40,467 --> 02:26:44,930 Okay? So let's get back to work. Now what we saw there... 1790 02:26:44,972 --> 02:26:47,599 was two potassium chlorate... 1791 02:26:47,683 --> 02:26:52,855 would yield two potassium chloride, also a solid-- 1792 02:26:55,148 --> 02:26:58,610 [ No Audio ] 1793 02:27:02,906 --> 02:27:07,202 They cancelled the 6:00. I don't know why. I-- 1794 02:27:07,286 --> 02:27:11,039 I'm on the 8:1 0. I should be home... 9:30. 1795 02:27:11,123 --> 02:27:13,584 I'll see you then. I love you. Bye. 1796 02:27:27,848 --> 02:27:29,808 - Oh. Thanks, Dad. - Thanks. 1797 02:27:34,438 --> 02:27:37,274 [Ticking] 1798 02:27:37,357 --> 02:27:40,694 [Ticking Continues] 1799 02:27:42,446 --> 02:27:44,406 CBS management wouldn't let us broadcast... 1800 02:27:44,489 --> 02:27:47,993 our original story and our interview with Jeffrey Wigand... 1801 02:27:48,035 --> 02:27:50,454 because they were worried about the possibility... 1802 02:27:50,537 --> 02:27:53,415 of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit against us... 1803 02:27:53,498 --> 02:27:55,792 for tortious interference. 1804 02:27:55,876 --> 02:27:58,045 But now things have changed. 1805 02:27:58,128 --> 02:28:00,923 What Dr. Wigand told us was that his former-- 1806 02:28:01,006 --> 02:28:05,010 ##[Vocalizing] 1807 02:28:05,093 --> 02:28:07,888 [ No Dialog ] 1808 02:28:30,118 --> 02:28:33,080 [Moore] This industry, in my opinion, is an industry... 1809 02:28:33,121 --> 02:28:37,084 that has perpetrated the biggest fraud on the American public in history. 1810 02:28:37,167 --> 02:28:39,294 They've killed millions and millions of-- 1811 02:28:39,378 --> 02:28:41,296 [ No Audio ] 1812 02:29:02,442 --> 02:29:05,654 [Wallace On TV] You wish you hadn't blown the whistle? 1813 02:29:05,737 --> 02:29:10,075 Yeah, there are times I wish I hadn't done it. 1814 02:29:10,117 --> 02:29:15,289 There are times I feel com-- compelled to do it. 1815 02:29:15,372 --> 02:29:17,291 If you ask me... 1816 02:29:17,374 --> 02:29:20,377 would I do it again, do I think it's worth it? 1817 02:29:23,297 --> 02:29:25,257 Yeah, I think it's worth it. 1818 02:29:30,804 --> 02:29:34,600 I promised you a three-hour heads up. Here it is. 1819 02:29:34,641 --> 02:29:38,103 Have a camera crew standing by in Helena, Montana on Tuesday, 1820 02:29:38,145 --> 02:29:40,105 and I'll give you a three-hour head start. 1821 02:29:40,147 --> 02:29:43,525 All right? By the way, that was a hell of a good show tonight. 1822 02:29:43,609 --> 02:29:45,611 - Thank you, Bill. - Yeah. 1823 02:30:05,005 --> 02:30:08,258 You won. 1824 02:30:08,342 --> 02:30:10,260 Yeah. 1825 02:30:13,597 --> 02:30:15,516 What did I win? 1826 02:30:19,269 --> 02:30:23,565 [Man On TV]Reporting from CBS News world head quarters in New York, good afternoon. 1827 02:30:23,649 --> 02:30:26,276 There has been a major breakin the case of the so-called Unabomber. 1828 02:30:26,360 --> 02:30:28,278 CBS News has learned that are mote homesite... 1829 02:30:28,362 --> 02:30:30,489 outside of Lincoln, Montana... 1830 02:30:30,572 --> 02:30:33,992 has been under F.B.I. surveillance for several weeks. 1831 02:30:35,536 --> 02:30:37,496 [Woman] Great, Lowell. 1832 02:30:46,547 --> 02:30:48,966 Thanks for this. 1833 02:30:49,049 --> 02:30:53,595 You know, we beat everybody. ABC, NBC, CNN. 1834 02:30:56,723 --> 02:30:58,684 Mike. 1835 02:31:06,233 --> 02:31:08,610 That Canada story... 1836 02:31:08,694 --> 02:31:10,612 still interest you? 1837 02:31:10,696 --> 02:31:14,658 Everything interests me. 1838 02:31:14,741 --> 02:31:16,660 Uh, I quit, Mike. 1839 02:31:19,079 --> 02:31:20,998 Bullshit. 1840 02:31:22,499 --> 02:31:25,210 Come on. 1841 02:31:25,252 --> 02:31:27,754 It all worked out. 1842 02:31:27,796 --> 02:31:30,716 You came out okay in the end. 1843 02:31:30,757 --> 02:31:32,759 I did? 1844 02:31:32,801 --> 02:31:36,054 What do I tell a source on the next tough story? 1845 02:31:36,138 --> 02:31:39,099 " Hang in with us. You'll be fine. Maybe." 1846 02:31:39,141 --> 02:31:41,935 No. 1847 02:31:42,019 --> 02:31:45,022 What got broken here... 1848 02:31:45,105 --> 02:31:47,608 doesn't go back together again. 1849 02:31:52,279 --> 02:31:54,656 So, uh-- 1850 02:34:17,716 --> 02:34:21,178 ##[Vocalizing]