1 00:00:00,010 --> 00:00:02,590 She actually said that she thought it was a body? 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,790 Yes. Yeah, she did. 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,030 He told me he'd stolen some of your jewellery. He wouldn't tell me why. 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,870 Joanna... she got pregnant. 5 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:11,790 Thea's now 38. 6 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,590 What have they done? What did you tell them to do? 7 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,590 He fell asleep smoking. Wouldn't have known a thing. 8 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,910 OK, we've got something! 9 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,600 Just there! 10 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,230 Nicholas Howard Whitmore, known as Nick. 11 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,830 My wife... What have you done to her? 12 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,880 I don't know where your wife is, Ray. 13 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,310 I didn't do it. 14 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,360 But I know who did. 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,320 ♪ All we do is hide away 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,910 ♪ All we do is, All we do is hide away 17 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,800 ♪ All we do is lie in wait 18 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,790 ♪ All we do is, All we do is lie in wait 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,470 ♪ I've been upside-down 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,270 ♪ I don't wanna be the right way round. 21 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:12,840 ♪ Can't find paradise on the ground ♪ 22 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,700 Ah, Mrs Slater. If you'd like to follow me... 23 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:40,630 - Mr Slater? - Yeah. 24 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,150 Er, both of us, we're her sons. 25 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:44,950 I wanted to tell you what's happening. 26 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,590 Your mother's being released now 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,990 - and has been bailed to return here in a month. - OK. 28 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,790 And so, has she been charged with anything, or...? 29 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,550 - No, not yet. - Right. I see. 30 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,070 And, my father... Is-Is he...? What's happening there? 31 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,190 Your father went before a magistrate's court 32 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,190 a couple of hours ago and was then transferred to East Bridge Prison. 33 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,430 He's being held in remand after being charged with two murders. 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,510 - No. - Has he confessed? 35 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,630 All I can tell you, I'm afraid. 36 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,670 He... killed two people? 37 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,830 Like I said, that's all I know at the moment. 38 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,390 So... I think what would be best 39 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,240 is if you just took your mum home. 40 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,550 All right, Mrs Slater? 41 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,750 Oh, Matthew, I've been so scared. 42 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,470 It's Les, Mum. 43 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,720 Um, the car's outside. 44 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,800 Mr Slater? 45 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,550 In cases like this, 46 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,310 it might be worth trying to find somewhere quiet for a few days to take everyone. 47 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,430 Till the papers and TV settle down a bit. 48 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,640 It's not... gonna be easy for you. 49 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,030 A witness saw a man's car leaving at four in the morning. 50 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,510 He drove there in his own car? 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,150 He says he parked half a mile away but, er... 52 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:03,950 Where is he now? 53 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,240 He just rang me from the police station. 54 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,220 But it's fine. 55 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,190 If they do link the fire to him, he's not going to name anyone. 56 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,670 As long as we can look after his family. 57 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,240 He has a wife, two kids. 58 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,280 How much? 59 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,590 Two million. 60 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:27,640 And how much of that are you getting? 61 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,400 Or he just gives them your name and gets a reduced sentence. 62 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,590 I know people, Asil. 63 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,150 The only reason I didn't go to them to deal with Fenwick 64 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,700 is cos I thought the police was watching me. 65 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,220 But they're not watching me now. 66 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,660 You knew what I was when you married me. 67 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,720 In fact, you liked it. 68 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,350 You should have called, Dad. I would've come and picked you up. 69 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,400 No, it's all right. 70 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,550 Bus came almost immediately. 71 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,870 What did the police say? 72 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,190 Oh, they were very nice. 73 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,600 They said that... that, perhaps, if I offered to pay it all back... 74 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,340 .. then... I might escape a custodial sentence. 75 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,510 I might need a day or two. 76 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,030 Sort things out with Grace. 77 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,380 And the girls. 78 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,120 And the church. 79 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,900 Lots to sort out. 80 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,270 Excuse me, mate. 81 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,590 Sorry, but have you seen this woman on the paper? 82 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,830 There's a number there as well, mate. 83 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,390 Thanks. Thanks very much. 84 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,310 - Cheers. Ta-ta. - You're welcome. 85 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,620 Come on, mate. We're both exhausted. 86 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,830 Let's go home and get some rest. 87 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,380 No, you can stop if you want to. I'm staying. 88 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,160 Excuse me. 89 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,420 Have you seen this woman on your travels? 90 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,760 You still say you didn't kill them, but you know who did? 91 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,480 Yes. 92 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,480 And are you gonna tell us? 93 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,560 Yes. 94 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:42,000 I-I-I want to be moved to a prison near my boy, Leslie. 95 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,230 And I want a doctor. 96 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:47,420 I-I don't feel, um... 97 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:49,950 I don't feel well. 98 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,470 Well, we can certainly look into all that, Eric. 99 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,270 But first we need a name. 100 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,200 What? 101 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,190 I'm sure you understand this. 102 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,590 It might look like you're just... you're just making things up. 103 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,760 Just, um, toying with us. 104 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,400 Y-Y-You get me what I've asked for... 105 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,360 .. and then I'll tell you. 106 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,550 What do you think? 107 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,430 I think I'm struggling very hard not to punch him in the face. 108 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,350 - You think it's bollocks? - Yeah. I think it's bollocks. 109 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,870 - Except whatever name he gives us... - Which he won't. 110 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,430 It would be easy enough to discount very quickly, so what's the point? 111 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,350 You said it. 112 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,110 He's yanking our chain. 113 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,790 Having a bit of fun. 114 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:47,070 He's had all this... this power for the last 40 years, 115 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,710 this secret only he's known. 116 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,240 And now, now it's all gone. 117 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,870 Now all he's got to look forward to is dying in some pissy prison cell 118 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,160 with East End Arthur to hold his hand. 119 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,600 I just... 120 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:08,160 Last night, after we charged him, I sat in my office and I... 121 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,510 Oh, I dunno. 122 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,800 It just felt wrong. 123 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,430 Of course it did. 124 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,310 We wanted him to admit it. 125 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,630 We wanted him to look us in the eye 126 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,150 and tell us that our work had made it impossible for him to lie. 127 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,920 So we could go to Maureen Sullivan and tell her that he'd confessed. 128 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,280 Unfortunately, people like Eric Slater... don't give a toss about stuff like that. 129 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,790 Yeah, I think you're right. 130 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,260 But, let's, um, just call his bluff, anyway. 131 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,550 Then see what he says. 132 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,540 What do you think? 133 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,840 I reckon you're gonna do whatever you want to do. 134 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,270 Um, we need to see the Governor, please. Thank you. 135 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,110 Police investigating the James Sullivan murder case 136 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,510 have arrested and charged a man... 137 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,750 .. with two counts of murder. The arrests... 138 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,270 It's one of our rentals, but it's vacant at the moment 139 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,590 and it's in the middle of nowhere. I'll text you the address. 140 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,780 Bring Mum, obviously. 141 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,480 Oh, no. 142 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:49,430 She's in theatre. 143 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,550 They're doing an emergency Caesarean. 144 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,710 Oh. 145 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,150 What is it? What-What caused it? 146 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,120 Is it connected in any way to stress, or perhaps...? 147 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,940 They said not. 148 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,800 All right. 149 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,040 Can I wait with you? 150 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,790 If Mum comes out, I think you ought to wait in the cafe. 151 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,830 Of course. 152 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,550 Excuse me. We're looking for a missing person. 153 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,830 - If you see her, can you give us a call? - Yeah. Sure. 154 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,630 Hey! I saw her yesterday. 155 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:41,390 Where? 156 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,030 Here. 157 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,220 Well... W-Was she OK? 158 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,590 Was she? 159 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,940 - I'm really sorry, mate -- - Just tell me. 160 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,000 She jumped. 161 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,950 - What is it? - Ah. 162 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:02,760 Oh... 163 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,510 No. 164 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:08,400 No! 165 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,280 Does she know about us? 166 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,240 Yes. 167 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:39,920 And, you know... she's always wanted me to tell you about her. 168 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,200 Erm... 169 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,880 How involved in... in her life were you? 170 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,040 How often did you... do you see her? 171 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,830 Once a week. 172 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,880 Sometimes twice. 173 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,230 For nearly four decades, you've seen this woman twice a week? 174 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,390 My daughter, yes. 175 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,750 That's more than you saw us. 176 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,790 Yes. 177 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,710 I wasn't as present for you as I should have been. 178 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,100 I completely accept that. 179 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,440 At some level, I was also scared... 180 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,760 .. that if I got too close you'd see me, the real me... 181 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,750 .. and that was wrong. 182 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,360 And I'll regret the choices I made for the rest of my life. 183 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,950 - Baby's fine. - Oh, Mum! 184 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,590 Four pounds, one ounce. 185 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,630 Ah, Caroline's in recovery. 186 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:53,880 - The baby's in the special care unit. She'd like to see you. - OK. 187 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,840 We should be so happy, Robert. 188 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,060 Our first grandchild. 189 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,630 Ah, so, er, we can get you into a prison 190 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:32,270 which is, um, half an hour from your son's home. 191 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,270 It has a good psychiatric department, 192 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,190 where we can get you properly assessed. 193 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,630 Make sure you're getting the right help, if you co-operate with us now. 194 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:43,360 If you start asking for other stuff, um, this dialogue ends. 195 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,440 The process continues to trial and... trust me... 196 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,870 .. on the evidence we have, you will be convicted. 197 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,230 So, um, it is time to talk. 198 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,510 Do you wanna...? 199 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,150 Resuming interview with Eric Slater. 200 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,120 Present: DCI Stuart, DS Khan, Duty Solicitor Elise Hughes. 201 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,560 Time is... Er, it's 10:17. 202 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,300 It was Claire. 203 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,040 I'm sorry. Can you say that again? Because I didn't hear you. 204 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,680 I said it was Claire, my wife. 205 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,080 It was Claire. 206 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:48,090 I met Claire at Hunter and Regis in 1969. 207 00:13:48,140 --> 00:13:51,210 They-They made air conditioning units. 208 00:13:51,260 --> 00:13:56,570 I worked in accounts and, um, she was... she was in the typing pool. 209 00:13:56,620 --> 00:13:59,930 I-I'd never been very good with the ladies. 210 00:13:59,980 --> 00:14:04,130 But I always felt very relaxed around her. 211 00:14:04,180 --> 00:14:06,850 We found the same things funny. 212 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:12,700 Always had plenty to talk about and one day, she just asked me out. 213 00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:16,880 A bit unconventional, but I didn't mind. 214 00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:21,820 Our first date was at the Locarno, in Queen's Park. 215 00:14:23,060 --> 00:14:25,650 We kissed outside 216 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:30,620 and I bought us saveloy and chips from a takeaway in Townmead Road. 217 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:36,530 Yeah, we courted for, er, a year or so 218 00:14:36,580 --> 00:14:39,810 and then got married, before we moved to Dollis Hill. 219 00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:42,490 That's where I got the job at, er, Arlingham House 220 00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:45,740 which was, er, which was round the corner. 221 00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,650 1971, er, that was. 222 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:55,410 Yes, she-she wanted kids im-immediately 223 00:14:55,460 --> 00:14:58,810 because, you know, we were neither of us spring chickens. 224 00:14:58,860 --> 00:15:03,260 Which, I did too, very much. 225 00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:08,770 But there was a problem. 226 00:15:09,660 --> 00:15:14,490 Which I think she always knew about in her heart 227 00:15:14,540 --> 00:15:17,130 and-and, er, hoped would changed. 228 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:20,860 And, er, I wanted it to change. 229 00:15:22,540 --> 00:15:26,180 I wanted it to change, but it wouldn't. 230 00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:29,210 I couldn't. 231 00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:30,940 What problem? 232 00:15:35,660 --> 00:15:37,340 I liked men. 233 00:15:39,260 --> 00:15:41,200 I didn't want to. 234 00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:44,690 I absolutely didn't want to. 235 00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:47,370 Just how I was. 236 00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:52,650 You liked men and women, or just...? 237 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:56,610 I loved my wife. I mean, I still do. Very much. 238 00:15:56,660 --> 00:16:01,090 And obviously, I was able to, er, you know... We had two boys. 239 00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:03,610 But, right from when I was a kid, 240 00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:07,820 I just had this thing inside of me that made me... 241 00:16:09,380 --> 00:16:12,010 - .. want to be with men. - Men like Paul West? 242 00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:15,180 I never wanted to hurt West. 243 00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:20,900 He asked me to rough him up a bit. 244 00:16:22,780 --> 00:16:24,490 Some men seem to like that. 245 00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:27,370 And Jimmy? And Nicholas? 246 00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:30,050 Well, Jimmy, he just wanted money. 247 00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:33,540 Nicholas, I-I met in the pub. 248 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:38,780 And how did they die? 249 00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:46,600 I-I would never have hurt Jimmy. 250 00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:48,890 I loved him. 251 00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:51,210 I'd never have hurt him. 252 00:16:53,860 --> 00:16:55,660 I'm sorry. 253 00:16:57,420 --> 00:16:59,090 I'm so sorry. 254 00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:11,820 I think we might need five minutes. 255 00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:14,770 Five minutes. No more, please. 256 00:17:14,820 --> 00:17:16,930 We're taking a short break in the interview. 257 00:17:16,980 --> 00:17:19,920 Time is... It's 10:41. Would you...? 258 00:17:23,620 --> 00:17:25,290 You gotta hand it to the man. 259 00:17:25,340 --> 00:17:27,410 He is smart as fuck. 260 00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:30,530 If you're going to blame somebody else, 261 00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:33,290 then choose a woman whose memory is completely shot 262 00:17:33,340 --> 00:17:35,410 and can't even deny it. 263 00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:37,400 His face, though. 264 00:17:39,020 --> 00:17:40,700 What? 265 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:45,090 It was the same as in his house when we asked him about Paul West. 266 00:17:45,140 --> 00:17:50,060 And last night at the station, when we said we were gonna charge him. 267 00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:54,770 When he said it wasn't him. 268 00:17:57,420 --> 00:18:00,010 And now I know why I felt so crap afterwards. 269 00:18:00,060 --> 00:18:01,890 Why? 270 00:18:01,940 --> 00:18:04,140 Because I believed him. 271 00:18:06,860 --> 00:18:09,000 You call the station. 272 00:18:10,540 --> 00:18:13,410 We need to re-arrest Claire Slater. 273 00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:22,490 Yeah, but, I-I-I thought the CPS said that we could...? 274 00:18:22,540 --> 00:18:24,650 Yeah, yeah. Which one of the sons took her? 275 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,130 Um, er, I'm not sure. 276 00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:29,490 I'll... I'll call their homes. 277 00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:31,530 OK. 278 00:18:31,580 --> 00:18:33,170 (Bollocks.) 279 00:18:33,220 --> 00:18:34,930 Mr Wilton? 280 00:18:34,980 --> 00:18:36,580 Yes. 281 00:18:37,620 --> 00:18:39,610 Your wife was pulled out of the river. 282 00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:41,800 A passerby jumped in. 283 00:18:42,780 --> 00:18:44,770 She was unconscious when she came out 284 00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:46,930 and was taken immediately to St Thomas'. 285 00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:48,850 I'm afraid that's all I know. 286 00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:50,530 Murray? 287 00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:55,050 - Have we got mobile numbers for the sons? - I dunno, maybe. 288 00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:56,890 Why, are neither of them at the house? 289 00:18:56,940 --> 00:18:59,770 No. I'm not sure they will be for a few days. 290 00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:01,450 I thought we were done with her 291 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:05,340 and I kind of told them they might want to lie low for a week or so. 292 00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:24,730 I'd-I'd stayed late, er, to-to see him, er, Jimmy, again. 293 00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:27,580 And, er, she must've just guessed. 294 00:19:28,780 --> 00:19:32,690 I think she always knew when I was, er, well... 295 00:19:32,740 --> 00:19:36,660 This-This one time, she-she came to find me. 296 00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:44,340 And what you need to know... is she wasn't well, mentally. 297 00:19:45,340 --> 00:19:49,130 Er, we'd just had Leslie and ever since she'd been, oh! 298 00:19:49,180 --> 00:19:54,250 Well, phew, ve-very s... very sick. 299 00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:56,290 And, of course, in those days, the doctors, 300 00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:59,090 they just told you to pull yourself together. 301 00:19:59,140 --> 00:20:02,820 You know? So, she never, never got any... any help. 302 00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:09,170 And I never s... I never saw her coming down. 303 00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:11,020 It was dark. 304 00:20:13,140 --> 00:20:15,660 Well, she-she saw us. 305 00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:25,410 She-She hit him with, um, with a hammer she'd found on a workbench. 306 00:20:25,460 --> 00:20:27,290 Just once. 307 00:20:27,340 --> 00:20:31,220 But I-I knew from the sound it made that, uh... 308 00:20:32,980 --> 00:20:35,250 Oh, and then she was screaming at me, 309 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:38,370 calling me... all the names under the sun. 310 00:20:38,420 --> 00:20:42,090 I was trying to get me hand over her mouth to keep her quiet 311 00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:44,370 and by the time I'd sorted her out... 312 00:20:44,420 --> 00:20:51,090 Jimmy... Well, I-I think he was dead before he hit the floor. 313 00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:55,540 So, er, I locked the cellar. 314 00:20:56,620 --> 00:20:58,770 Took Claire home. 315 00:20:58,820 --> 00:21:00,980 Came back later. 316 00:21:02,740 --> 00:21:08,010 Course I-I couldn't risk, er, carrying him outside, 317 00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:14,100 so, um, I buried him there... 318 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:17,970 .. later that night. 319 00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:25,500 Will you tell his mother, please, that I said prayers? 320 00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:34,570 I said prayers for him. 321 00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:37,090 I-I, um, I looked after him. 322 00:21:37,140 --> 00:21:42,570 Of course, I, I assumed that, um, you know, er, we'd be caught. 323 00:21:42,620 --> 00:21:46,170 He'd be found. But he... He never was. 324 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:47,810 And, oh, that night. 325 00:21:47,860 --> 00:21:50,940 I vowed to stop all of that for good. 326 00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:54,330 And we moved up to, er, Ely. 327 00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:56,570 Yeah, to get away from London. 328 00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:59,210 It worked. Mm. 329 00:21:59,260 --> 00:22:01,400 Yes, it worked. Um... 330 00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:05,490 Yeah, two years later, we had little Matty 331 00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:07,880 and it, it was all, er... 332 00:22:08,740 --> 00:22:11,530 You know, but, it was the '70s. There was no work. 333 00:22:11,580 --> 00:22:18,330 And, erm, I ended up having to get a job back in London, 334 00:22:18,380 --> 00:22:20,780 two days a week in Camden. 335 00:22:22,940 --> 00:22:27,300 And I started to stay out late again. 336 00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:35,580 So, er, one night she left the kids with a friend. 337 00:22:36,660 --> 00:22:40,170 Came down to London, followed me, er... 338 00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:43,330 .. from work up to Hampstead 339 00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:48,220 and found me with Nicholas in my car. 340 00:22:50,020 --> 00:22:52,010 Of course, she went for him. 341 00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:54,580 Pulled him out, punching. 342 00:22:56,860 --> 00:23:00,360 Kicking and, er, then, he was on the ground. 343 00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:02,410 Blood everywhere. 344 00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:06,100 She-She always said that it was him who'd drawn it... 345 00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,240 .. the-the knife. 346 00:23:09,940 --> 00:23:13,260 But she was, er, ill. 347 00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:20,250 Very ill again aft-after-after Matty. 348 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:26,460 So, I, um, I pulled him back, back into the car. 349 00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:33,970 I want you to know 350 00:23:34,020 --> 00:23:39,300 that I stood outside police stations dozens of times. 351 00:23:40,540 --> 00:23:44,220 Dozens of times after Jimmy. 352 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:49,300 And, um, what did she feel? 353 00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:53,610 Well, when she got better, of course, 354 00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:56,370 she was devastated by what she'd done. 355 00:23:56,420 --> 00:23:58,250 But, you know, we had a little boy. 356 00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:00,900 If we'd both gone to prison... 357 00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:04,610 And after Nicholas Whitmore? 358 00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:11,700 I-I drove my car into a tree two weeks after Nicholas. 359 00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:15,010 I wanted to die. 360 00:24:15,060 --> 00:24:18,810 But actually, in the end, 361 00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:26,890 I think, er, this... er, this, erm, was a fairer punishment. 362 00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:36,740 I'm sure Jimmy and Nicholas's families, er... wouldn't agree. 363 00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:54,520 I've already made calls, Joshie. 364 00:24:56,100 --> 00:25:00,610 People who'll make that little prick Asil shit out of his ears. 365 00:25:00,660 --> 00:25:02,330 Dad, the police are coming. 366 00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:04,010 Huh? 367 00:25:04,060 --> 00:25:06,770 The police are coming in to arrest you in five minutes. 368 00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:09,920 They've already pulled up down the road. 369 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:13,500 What do you mean, coming in to...? 370 00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:18,380 Why are police coming to arrest me? 371 00:25:31,380 --> 00:25:34,180 Because I told them about Fenwick. 372 00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:38,530 Cos I think you've lost your way, Dad. I think we all have. 373 00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:40,780 And because I love you. 374 00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:54,020 Goodnight, Mum. 375 00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:54,330 I'm so sorry, Ray, I... 376 00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:56,290 Don't you say another word. 377 00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:58,380 Not one word. 378 00:27:03,260 --> 00:27:06,060 It's me who should be apologising. 379 00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:08,420 It's me. 380 00:27:23,060 --> 00:27:25,380 Uh-huh. 381 00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:28,370 What? 382 00:27:28,420 --> 00:27:30,250 Oh... 383 00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:32,450 OK, cheers. Thanks. 384 00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:38,340 Nobody has any idea where Claire or her sons are. 385 00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:40,570 They've disappeared. 386 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,320 Oh, Caz, he's gorgeous. 387 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,190 You can't call him Noah. 388 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,540 (Shit.) Sorry. 389 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,880 Hello. Ellie speaking. 390 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,470 Hello? 391 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,880 Hi, Ellie. Erm, er, you don't know me. 392 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,760 My name's Thea. 393 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,500 I'm your half-sister. 394 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,030 And how bad is it? 395 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,670 I spoke to her GP earlier. 396 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,390 I mean, obviously we'd have to get our own assessment done 397 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,270 but, yeah, it's, it's fairly advanced. 398 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,470 She first presented four years ago, 399 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,910 but the decline in the last few months has been particularly rapid, apparently. 400 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,710 Right. 401 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,790 Well, you know what I'm going to say. 402 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,670 Could she properly remember what she's been accused of? 403 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,110 Could she tell her solicitor her side of things? 404 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,830 Could she challenge what witnesses say in court? 405 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,070 And, if she can't do any of those things, she's unfit to plead. 406 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,910 - OK, so... - Well, there are a number of questions here. 407 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,870 I mean, if he's worked all this out, 408 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,660 why would he not say it was her? 409 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,790 Assisting an offender carries a maximum sentence of ten years. 410 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,750 Now, given his age he might get, I don't know, eight. Out in four. 411 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,630 - For double murder, he's gonna die in prison. - Yeah. 412 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,150 - What's your gut feeling? - All of it is true. 413 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,550 To admit what he did, my feeling is that, 414 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,230 that was actually harder for him than saying he killed them. 415 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,030 Which might sound unbelievable, until you think that 416 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,670 for the first 30 years of his life what he was, what he did was illegal 417 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,190 and, um, utterly disgusting to 99% of the population. 418 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,910 I think that shame absolutely remains. 419 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,510 Then why did he admit it, then? 420 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,310 Because, in the end, he knew that 421 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,510 his boys were gonna lose their mother pretty soon, anyway. 422 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,750 Already had, to a degree. 423 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,670 So telling us what he did, I think his reasoning was that 424 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,030 that meant at least they didn't lose both. 425 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,750 And is there any evidence to corroborate his version? 426 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,790 I think we'll find evidence that he had multiple homosexual relationships. 427 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,430 We might find, er, medical records 428 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,630 confirming she had some form of postpartum psychosis. 429 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,830 Maybe even we'll be able to place her at the hostel, 430 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,870 um, on the... on the night Jimmy died. 431 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,150 And then, if we do, then, his narrative is better than ours. 432 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,870 We've got a mobile number for Matthew Slater's work. 433 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,870 No answer from him yet, but his work have told us where he is. 434 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,720 - Local police are on their way. - OK, thank you. 435 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,710 You really are an evil bitch, aren't you? 436 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,390 Matthew... 437 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,310 How could you have watched your husband put a body in the ground 438 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,350 - and not said anything? - What body? What are you talking about? 439 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,110 How could that ever have seemed an acceptable thing to do? 440 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,910 - Matthew, you're scaring me. - Good! 441 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,870 I wonder if you feel as scared as your grandson was yesterday? 442 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,880 Or as I did when I watched the news and realised that this is who we are now. 443 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,590 Ooh! Sorry. 444 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,990 - Oh, sorry. Uh... - No, no, I-I'll just... 445 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,710 ♪ .. The unspeakable wrong... ♪ 446 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,160 - Hey. - I've just walked in on your granddad. 447 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,350 Oh, right, with Annie. 448 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,590 What? I don't know, it was a little old lady. 449 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,380 Yeah. She works at the Feathers. 450 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,110 - Sorry about that. - No, no, no. It's fine, you know. 451 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,430 - I shouldn't have barged in. - No, it's your house. 452 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,190 I should've knocked or... 453 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,790 - Anyway, I'm bushed so, uh... - Sure. No problem. - .. I'm gonna turn in. 454 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,510 - Yeah. - Night. - Night, then. 455 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,540 That went well (!) 456 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,520 Class (!) 457 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,990 You have absolutely no proof 458 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,550 my client was connected to these events in any way. 459 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,750 And if either of you have kids, I don't need to tell you 460 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,790 just how many reasons there could be for Josh saying what he did 461 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,350 without any connection to the truth whatsoever. 462 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,710 Which is all well and good, Mr Archer, 463 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,760 but doesn't really answer my question. 464 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,790 Did you pay to have Gordon Fenwick murdered, Sir Phillip? 465 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,080 If you have no further questions, I think we'll be on our way. 466 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,710 They've got nothing to hold you here, Sir Phillip. Let's go. 467 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,360 Yes. 468 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,990 Er... I'm sorry? 469 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,630 Sir Philip. 470 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,680 Yes. 471 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,360 I paid for Gordon Fenwick to be killed. 472 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,510 Early? 473 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,070 Listen, um, last night... 474 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,830 Please. There's no need. 475 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,360 No, I just wanted to say that I'm trying to look forward, Cass. 476 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,120 Cos life goes on, doesn't it? 477 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,990 And just live your life for you, Dad. 478 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,070 Just-Just do what makes you happy. 479 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,830 Please. 480 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,920 Please, please. 481 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,590 Hey there, Miss. 482 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,580 Hello, sweetheart. 483 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,830 How lovely to see you again. 484 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,390 Well, if you could conclusively prove she did it, 485 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,430 then a judge and a jury could hear the prosecution evidence, 486 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,070 despite her being unfit to plead. 487 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:36,830 Except they can't convict her. 488 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,710 No. But the court is at least acknowledging the facts, 489 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,000 which might be better for Jimmy and Nicholas's family. 490 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,790 - And what happens to her? - Well, she'd just get the supervision order. 491 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,740 Which is what she'd get if it didn't got to court. 492 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,720 Right, so she causes the death of two people. 493 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,950 All the pain those two families have been through. 494 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,120 And she sees out her days in a care home. 495 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,460 Do you recognise him, Claire? 496 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,760 No, I don't think so. Sorry. 497 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,990 You don't remember hurting him? 498 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,510 No, I don't. I'm trying. 499 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:55,680 It was in the cellar of Arlingham House, July 1976. 500 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,120 You went to find your husband. 501 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,790 - What? - I don't know. 502 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,180 You remembered something? 503 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,670 Maybe I remember this boy... 504 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:18,790 Maybe. I don't know. 505 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,640 Do you, um, remember... 506 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,040 .. being unwell, after your children were born, Claire? 507 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,030 Maybe. I don't know. 508 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,700 Do you remember that your husband liked men? 509 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,960 Oh! 510 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,280 Was it to do with that? 511 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,310 You know what? I'm really not happy with this. 512 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,190 We need to stop. 513 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,670 I'm so sorry if I hurt anyone. 514 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:12,310 If I could remember I'd tell you, but I can't. 515 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,480 I'm sorry. 516 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,480 We can't thank you enough. 517 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,990 How is it I feel sorry for her? 518 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,790 Hi, Maureen. 519 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,840 Can I come in? 520 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,750 Hi. 521 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:53,400 So, what I wanted to tell you, Grace, was that actually Dad... 522 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,870 .. Robert... 523 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,470 .. he very much wanted to tell you about me. 524 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,590 In fact, from the moment he found out, 525 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,630 when I was about 18 months old, 526 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,880 he desperately wanted to admit his mistake to you. 527 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,180 But my mother, she... 528 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,960 Well, she was scared she would lose me, somehow. 529 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,600 So she told him that if he ever did tell you... 530 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,510 .. he would never see me again. 531 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,980 So, he chose to live this terrible lie... 532 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,120 .. so he could be there for you and for me. 533 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:37,910 And be the best father he could to all of us. 534 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,400 But him not telling you... 535 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,870 .. well, that came from a place of love and decency. 536 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,680 And I just hope that, some day... 537 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,140 .. you'll be able to forgive him for it. 538 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,790 Every time I turn a corner, I meet someone from the old days. 539 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,760 Like a bloody school reunion. 540 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,790 And next week. How are you feeling about the trial? 541 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,080 The next week's just a bit of theatre, isn't it? 542 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,800 It's the last two months that have really mattered. 543 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,160 Thinking time. 544 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,350 All I ever wanted... 545 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,660 .. was for my children to be better than me. 546 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,800 The start I had, the things I was taught, things I did... back then. 547 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,510 Everything I've ever achieved since, 548 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,030 beneath the ambition and the money and the vanity, 549 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:50,600 was all really to buy you your escape... from me. 550 00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:53,760 What I was. 551 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,240 I'm so proud of you. 552 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,880 Both of you. 553 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,060 Of what you did for me and what you are. 554 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,910 All your visits, Mr Slater. Your mother's a very lucky woman. 555 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,960 No. No, I'm the lucky one. 556 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,280 Me again. 557 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,310 Does she ever mention me? 558 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,630 She can hardly speak now, Dad. 559 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,430 She-She doesn't... She doesn't know me. 560 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,270 Or Matt. 561 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,520 Matt sees her, does he? 562 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,670 I mean, I know he already knows but... 563 00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:09,190 I'd always love to see him. 564 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,360 Tell him again. 565 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,720 I'm so sorry. 566 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,270 How comes you always walk in when Baz has got his shorts off, Miss? 567 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,390 Timing, Curtis. 568 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,440 Good timing. 569 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,720 Lads, move please.